Ticket let-off

[CrotchetyRocket]

Just to further reinforce the fact that you should use the system the way it's using you.

I got an "excessive" speed ticket a few back for going, allegedly, 55 in New West (30k zone). I dispute, as I always do. I go down to the courthouse to reschedule my court date, as I always do, and, it turns out Mr. Bill has resigned from the force and a stay letter is going out for all the tickets he has under dispute.

So, I'm off the hook for a $345 ticket and 3 points. Am I a bad boy for taking the rights I have and using them to my advantage? You be the judge.

Crotch

[ninja911]

Good to hear. One more for the sportbikers.
Sportbikers = 5pts Police = 999 pts

[CG]

i had the same thing happen to me, but it was a parking ticket in west van though.

[CrotchetyRocket]

I've had two really expensive ones like this go away for similar reasons in my 22 year driving career.

Crotch

[bre]

Speaking of parking tickets... I didn't think they actually followed through with those things. I got one downtown, like not even 10 minutes after it expired and the parking bitch was there laying out the tickets.

Didn't think anything of it until a couple days ago when I received a freakin summons. wtf? A summons for a parking ticket? fuck.

[CrotchetyRocket]

I guess it got your attention, though, didn't it? That was probably the intent.

Crotch

[FloMan]

Originally posted by CrotchetyRocket
Just to further reinforce the fact that you should use the system the way it's using you.

I got an "excessive" speed ticket a few back for going, allegedly, 55 in New West (30k zone.

I call bullshit...
I got caught doing 125 in a 50 zone in NW and I got the minimum fine...

[CrotchetyRocket]

What would you like, Flo, a round of applause? I have the notice in front of me, I'll fax you a copy, if you really need it.

Whatever makes you happy, of course.

I'll note also you have paid that fine or probably will pay it, whereas I'm laughing with $345 more in my pocket.

Crotch

[Cometman]

Hey Ken, did they nail you at the east end of Columbia where it goes to 30km/h? That speed limit is total horseshit, and I'm glad you got off. How did they get excessive for 25 over, though? School zone?

[CrotchetyRocket]

Well, 20 over is considered excessive and, I, allegedly, exceeded that. They got me at the west end; I was travelling towards Sapperton. I think they have the slow speed limit through there so not so many drug abusers and drunks staggering across the road will be killed. Nice part of town, that.

Crotch

[cosworth]

Fighting your ticket is a right of democracy. Whether it is proper to exercise that right or not depending on your own interpretation of guilt is an opinion that is not welcomed here it seems.

Personally I say booyah. That's my opinion.

[smokedvw]

Originally posted by CrotchetyRocket
Well, 20 over is considered excessive and, I, allegedly, exceeded that. They got me at the west end; I was travelling towards Sapperton. I think they have the slow speed limit through there so not so many drug abusers and drunks staggering across the road will be killed. Nice part of town, that.

Crotch

WTF its 41+km/h over for excessive

[chromedome]

That's what I was thinking. It's 40+ for excessive.:cool

[CrotchetyRocket]

Wellllll, I may be misinformed about what "excessive" is and, I was trying to hide the fact that I, allegedly, was going a little faster. The officer claimed I touched 65 on the S bend out of the city centre.

So there was no "40 over" on this excessive speeding ticket.

It's all moot anyway, I won :laughing

Crotch

[smokedvw]

Yeah exactly way to go man you dont have to pay thats awsome, hope mine turns out that way ;)

[VTwinVince]

Well done, Hombre, keep up the good work. I took the proceeds from my court victories this year and invested in a V1 radar locator.

[CrotchetyRocket]

For my last road trip my friend and I were talking and we realised we've got radar detectors, 10 year old BELs to be sure but, fine for use in the interior, where you'll never face Stalker, laser or VG2.

I found a couple hours and some old turbo coolant pipes and, quick and dirty, fabricated a mount to install it on the bike.

The speaker was busted in my detector anyway so I opened it up, soldered some fine gauge wire to the breadboard in place of the speaker, hooked a 1/8ths phono jack to the wire and bought a little monaural speaker at Radio Snack.

Plug it all in and yeah, it looks ugly and, ironically, I can't see my speedo anymore but, it's saved my bacon twice already. Not for big stuff, just the irritating 20 over crap that everyone does.

Crotch

[Spike]

Originally posted by CrotchetyRocket
Wellllll, I may be misinformed about what "excessive" is and, I was trying to hide the fact that I, allegedly, was going a little faster. The officer claimed I touched 65 on the S bend out of the city centre.

So the truth comes out, allegedly... You were speeding, and you got caught. So you want us to applaud your evasion of the laws? Sorry.

You speed, you get caught, you take your lumps. You know what the penalties are, don't be such a pussy.

Just my opinion...

[f4kneedragger]

Originally posted by Spike
So the truth comes out, allegedly... You were speeding, and you got caught. So you want us to applaud your evasion of the laws? Sorry.

You speed, you get caught, you take your lumps. You know what the penalties are, don't be such a pussy.

Just my opinion...

OMG, Why do so many people take this " holier than thou " perspective when it comes to speeding?
Good to hear Ken, I know that area well and cops haven't even batted an eye when I ride at the same speeds through there. Sounds like you passed the wrong cop on one of his off days.

[Spike]

Originally posted by f4kneedragger
OMG, Why do so many people take this " holier than thou " perspective when it comes to speeding?

Holier than thou? No. But despite the fact that the speed limits in BC may be overly conservative, they are the law, and i'm willing to make the choice between abiding by them and taking the punishment if I don't. A third option would be to lobby for increased limits, but I don't have the bandwidth to do that.

If you really weren't speeding, or he busted you for only going slightly over (ie. within the tolerance of his gun, +/-5%) then by all means try and dispute it. But don't post here on BCSB that you were doing "more than 65" in a 30 zone, and brag that you've successfully beaten the ticket.

[Iced]

up to 20kph over = $115
20kph up to 39kph = $173
40kph+ (excessive) = $340+

[johan]

Originally posted by VTwinVince
Well done, Hombre, keep up the good work. I took the proceeds from my court victories this year and invested in a V1 radar locator.

I'd be interested to know how/where you mounted the V1, including power for the thing. I've got an older V1 ... I really should get off my butt and put it on the bike.

[Commuter Boy]

Originally posted by johan
I'd be interested to know how/where you mounted the V1, including power for the thing. I've got an older V1 ... I really should get off my butt and put it on the bike.

A friend of mine in Portland has one with the remote
display unit. He fabbed up a neat little sealed metal box with a
front facing opening for it. He figures the next step is a little
spring loaded front door to completely out of sight it on LEO
encounters, or when parking.

He mounted the original unit in his Givi bag. Dosen't work
so well for laser, but a perfect 360 for radar.

[f4kneedragger]

Spike, I didn't quote your post to point fingers, It was used just as a reference. You said yourself the limits within BC are " conservative" , this combined with too much discretion given to officers results in a frustrated driving community. There have been counless cases where the driver/rider has been speeding but was operating their vehicle safely and considerately and still received a fine. Where another officer would not have issued a ticket for the same offence.
Then, to make matters worse these individuals post their frustration on this site only to receive the hypocratic response " suck it up ".
The system has its flaws, and errors. Hence the dispute process. I say work the system to it's full intended use.

Just my piss in the Ocean:D

[CrotchetyRocket]

Originally posted by Spike
So the truth comes out, allegedly... You were speeding, and you got caught. So you want us to applaud your evasion of the laws? Sorry.

You speed, you get caught, you take your lumps. You know what the penalties are, don't be such a pussy.

Just my opinion...

Excuse me, KMA.

I got off scot free and I'm happy about it. I wasn't making it into a moral issue, you are.

Should I go and pay now, despite the fact the court system gave me a by run on this one? Would that make my halo shinier, do you think?

You picked the wrong day, wrong guy, bud.

:flip

Crotch

[fz1]

Originally posted by f4kneedragger
Spike, I didn't quote your post to point fingers, It was used just as a reference. You said yourself the limits within BC are " conservative" , this combined with too much discretion given to officers results in a frustrated driving community. There have been counless cases where the driver/rider has been speeding but was operating their vehicle safely and considerately and still received a fine. Where another officer would not have issued a ticket for the same offence.
Then, to make matters worse these individuals post their frustration on this site only to receive the hypocratic response " suck it up ".
The system has its flaws, and errors. Hence the dispute process. I say work the system to it's full intended use.

Just my piss in the Ocean:D

You raised an interesting point re discretion. I wonder if the Washington State Patrol write everyone that goes over their limit cause the last time I rode back from Mt. St. Helens, I did the speed limit cause everyone else was doing it or under the limit. Didn't matter whether they drove pickup trucks or sports cars or family sedans. Come back into Canada and everyone starts at 20 km/hr over... There probably isn't much discretion down there. Then again, do we really want that type of enforcement here?

Interesting to see what others think. Do we want consistency amongst our law enforcers or is discretion a good thing, even though we may end up with a ticket for doing something that a buddy only got a warning for?

[mid life crisis]

Good for you Crotch for getting off but I'm not entirely on your side on this one.I am not going to preach but speed kills,may be not today or tommorow,but someday for sure.We all speed,its a known fact but we also know better.

[CrotchetyRocket]

I highly doubt doing sixty in a thirty on a full bore sportbike will kill anyone. I save my mega-speed for far distant climes, away from the hustle and bustle of city life.

Stupidity, drunkeness, clumsiness and/or lack of proper training kill, speed is not the cause.

However, once again, I made no moral commentary. I was merely happy to get a break from the system.

I'll tell you this, for all the preachy assholes out there. I would have gone into that courtroom, had it come to trial, admitted my guilt and appealed to the judge based on the principle of equity, (unemployed at that time) for a reduced fine.

In case you still don't think that's good enough self-flagellation for my sins; I'll remind you that the principle of equity is one of the core principles of our legal system. It is there, FWIW, to see that people don't get punished out of proportion with their crime because of outside circumstances like financial distress.

Crotch

[Bison]

[QUOTE][i]Stupidity, drunkeness, clumsiness and/or lack of proper training kill, speed is not the cause.


Not sure about sportbike riders out your way who crash...but here on the Island..recent MC crashes I'm aware of....
Gold River Hwy cross double solid almost 200% over the limit-head on into a pickup...DOA,, same road 2 1/2 times the limit & hit a power pole...DOA, Mt Washington ...witnesses say over twice the legal limit ...off road right..hopefully will survive, Gold River hwy in twisties...3 different crashes...too fast for the corners...both crashed..no major injuries luckily.....common thread...speed too fast. It does kill over here... All riders were adults, experienced riders on capable machines.
I agree that stupidity, drunkeness and clumsiness also contribute...but usually in the form of too much speed for the rider, the road and the bike. It ain't the speed...just the sudden stop at the end that does it.

[Karl Hungus]

Yeah Bison I see your point, but Crotchety rocket was at max doing 60kph, which isn't comparable to 200kph+.

I can't believe he'd get a ticket from some hard-on for that, surely NW cops have better things to do, such as stopping the junkies from staggering in front of traffic in the middle of the day.

I'm glad to hear that the jackass realized being a cock-on-legs wasn't the right career choice, or more likely, his superiors told him to pack his bags and piss off.

[Spike]

Originally posted by Bison

Stupidity, drunkeness, clumsiness and/or lack of proper training kill, speed is not the cause.

Not sure about sportbike riders out your way who crash...but here on the Island..recent MC crashes I'm aware of....
Gold River Hwy cross double solid almost 200% over the limit-head on into a pickup...DOA,, same road 2 1/2 times the limit & hit a power pole...DOA, Mt Washington ...witnesses say over twice the legal limit ...off road right..hopefully will survive, Gold River hwy in twisties...3 different crashes...too fast for the corners...both crashed..no major injuries luckily.....common thread...speed too fast. It does kill over here... All riders were adults, experienced riders on capable machines.
I agree that stupidity, drunkeness and clumsiness also contribute...but usually in the form of too much speed for the rider, the road and the bike. It ain't the speed...just the sudden stop at the end that does it.

I'm not sure that you've made a good arguement, unfortunately. In all of those accidents, speed definitely contributed to the spectactular outcomes of the accidents in question. But was it the *cause* of the accident?

I'll side with Crotchety that speed doesn't on it's own cause the accidents. And i'll even agree that it can be perfectly safe to do 20K over the limit in a 30 zone (just look at a school zone, for example). At the same time, i'm looking forward to my first trip to squamish on a bike... I know I can drive from the entrance to the S2S to the first stoplight in Squamish without slowing below 80kmh in my Civic. I've done it. But i'll definitely be slowing down the first time I take some of the 30 km/h hairpins on my bike.

And Crotchety, no, you shouldn't go and pay your fine now that you've evaded it. But you shouldn't encourage others to "try and rip off the system" either. If you don't like the limits imposed, come up with a better system, and lobby for it to be implimented. The laws were written so that they could be changed, none of them is cut in stone. Join S.E.N.S.E. or lobby B.C.C.O.M. to get limits increased.

[Deputy]

Originally posted by Spike
And i'll even agree that it can be perfectly safe to do 20K over the limit in a 30 zone (just look at a school zone, for example). [/B]

Are you saying that a kid running out into the street far enough in front of you that when travelling 50, you can't stop, but if you had been adhering to the posted limit, you could?

I just want to make sure I understand that quote...

[Bison]

[Quote)
I'm not sure that you've made a good arguement, unfortunately. In all of those accidents, speed definitely contributed to the spectactular outcomes of the accidents in question. But was it the *cause* of the accident?


If you look at all those crashes...mentioned above...X double solid...speeding....trying to catch up with other sportbikes, hitting the pole...speeding trying to catch up with other sportbikes,...Mt Washington...speeding, getting in over his head, braking hard & loosing it..off road, the other 3 crashes on the GR Hwy ...speeding too fast for the corners & went straight ahead off the road. The riders said this themselves...the live ones...remove the speed & there would have not been a crash IMHO

The faster you ride, the more distance you travel and the shorter time you have to react. Physics involved also come into play..ie traction, roadway positioning, braking distance etc. You may be able to beat a traffic law sometimes but there is no appeal to a decision by the the Laws of Physics.

[Spike]

Originally posted by Deputy
Are you saying that a kid running out into the street far enough in front of you that when travelling 50, you can't stop, but if you had been adhering to the posted limit, you could?

I just want to make sure I understand that quote...

No, what I meant was that the *road* is safe to drive at 50kmh, as the school zone isn't valid 24/7. I was just trying to show that there are speed limits set in places where it's not unsafe to be driving at a higher speed.

Most school zones i've seen are kinda silly, really... Many are on nice, straight stretches of road, with an open field between the school and the street, perfect for spotting a moving rugrat headed your way. Much better than, say, one of the smaller streets in East Van with cars parked on both sides and space between just wide enough for one vehicle to drive down it. Yet the limit there is 50. Go figure.

[Spike]

Here's what i'm getting at:


Originally posted by Bison
If you look at all those crashes...mentioned above...X double solid...speeding

The problem was that he crossed the double solid, which would have killed him even if he wasn't speeding. Why he crossed the double solid isn't clear. Speed *may* have contributed, but you can't say for sure.


....trying to catch up with other sportbikes, hitting the pole...speeding trying to catch up with other sportbikes,...Mt Washington...speeding, getting in over his head, braking hard & loosing it..off road

The problems here are exactly what you said: "getting in over his head." The rider is making the mistake of over-driving their abilities and/or the capabilities of his bike.


, the other 3 crashes on the GR Hwy ...speeding too fast for the corners & went straight ahead off the road. The riders said this themselves...the live ones...remove the speed & there would have not been a crash IMHO

It's easy to say "remove the speed and there'd be no accident," because it's a common, very visible theme in all of the accidents. But it's not the start of the chain of events that results in the accident in many of them. You would be more correct to say "remove the bad judgement and there'd be no accident."

A bad decision by the rider is present in 100% of these accidents, right at the beginning of the chain of events, although it may not be apparent at first glance.

[Bison]

Actually the reason he crossed the double solid WAS because he was speeding and trying to catch up with other riders. His speed was determined to be way over the limit...let alone the advisory speed. If he had been going the limit, let alone the advisory, he would not have crossed the line. His speed forced him across the line. Speed was the factor that killed him...and that is a fact.
Don't forget the other 5 crashes where speed was the cause & did not involve any other vehicle. Some of the research you can find on the net will show you that in single MC crashes when you subtract drugs or alcohol, speed and improper braking or failing to make a corner are the major causes.

I agree that bad judgement and a concious decision to speed was the deciding factor in all the crashes I mentioned. Unless you want to back it up all the way back & say getting on the bike was the factor that caused everything. Speeding is not a "mistake" or an "accident"...all these riders chose to speed without considering the possible ramifications down the road. In every one of those crashes I mentioned, speed was determined to be the cause of the crashes...3 of the riders that could still talk said that they were speeding and going too fast.