How do you know how far you can lean into a turn....

# Thread: How do you know how far you can lean into a turn....

1. ## How do you know how far you can lean into a turn....

Lets just say for argument sake the road is clean, dry and flat and you enter the right turn at normal safe speeds.

The question is can you lean until you scrap the pegs before the bike slips out from under you or you can lean much further than that because the tires are designed to do that....

2.

3. I would think think the answer depends on tires, and riding skills more than "the bike". The more skilled and smooth you are, the more you are able to push the bike to it's limits. On average, bikes tend to have far greater limits than the people who ride them.

4. Well if you're entering the corner at "normal safe speeds" you're not gonna be leaning the bike anywhere near it's maximum lean angle.

In most cases you will scrape pegs before the bike comes out from under you. But of course it always depends on the bike, its configuration, the rider's weight and position, etc...

I doubt there's any mathematical formula that will tell you. It's probably more about "feeling" the bike than anything.

If you're not sure, don't try it. Or go to the track and figure it out.

5. At my bike course they mentioned that in theory your only limited by the clearance of your pegs. And by looking at the tire it does look like it can go quite a ways down. But I dunno, never tried this and don't want to.

If you ride a goldwing, you can probably scrap the pegs just by changing lanes :P

6. if you don't understand this:

don't even try!

7. If you're not scraping pegs or dragging knees, you're not leaning far enough. But most importantly, just ride inside your comfort level. Riding beyond your means is usually when problems start.

8. That type of leaning belongs at the track and not on the street. Anyway, there is a reason why racers get off the motorcycle when at maximum lean, and that is to lower the center of gravity. You will slip and fall if you just leave your ass planted on the seat.

9. That's "lower the center of gravity and keep the bike on the fatter part of the tire". As with most things it's a matter of feel that comes with practice. Expect to crash a few times till you get it right. And then crash some more because you are introduced to other set of variables that you missed the first few times. It's a never ending search for traction and control. Enjoy!

And as noted this sort of training is best suited to the track.

10. i check my rider's manual as i am going into the turn to verify the proper lean angle

11. Originally Posted by Stewy
If you're not scraping pegs or dragging knees, you're not leaning far enough...
Tell that to Alan Schmidt.

12. the guys at sportrider disagree with the "lower the CofG" thing. One of their articles was saying its more important to get it towards the inside of the turn rather than lower down.

13. for arguments sake lets say you're rossi and get back to the question.....

"The question is can you lean until you scrap the pegs before the bike slips out from under you or you can lean much further than that because the tires are designed to do that" - you can lean a bit more

14. Originally Posted by SkydiveSonic
the guys at sportrider disagree with the "lower the CofG" thing. One of their articles was saying its more important to get it towards the inside of the turn rather than lower down.
My understanding from a physics perspective:

When you move your body to the inside of the turn, you are moving the centre of gravity of bike + rider to that side. For a given speed through a given corner, the c of g of bike plus rider will always be at a certain angle off the vertical from the tyre contact patch. Therefore, when you "get off" and move the c of g of the combination, the bike itself will be slightly more upright through the corner than had you not shifted to the inside.

This means a) greater ground clearance for bits that could potentially scrape (and possibly cause a rapid departure of bike & rider) and b) staying on a healthier contact patch of the tire.

The original question reminds me somewhat of the old engineering torque spec for a bolt. Question: how much should you tighten a bolt? Answer: until the thread strips and then back it off a quarter of a turn.

Question: how far should you lean a bike through a corner? Answer: Lean it progressively further & further until you fall & then reduce the lean angle by 2°! While this is said jokingly, I believe the really, really good riders actually do this to a certain extent. They go to the point of losing adhesion completely and utterly, catch the slide and next time stay just marginally on the safe side of the ragged edge. But to be able to do all that (push it progressively further and further until you start sliding, catch the slide and then being able to judge each individual corner based on that experiment to take it JUST to the edge) is way, way, way beyond us mortals. Refer to NFG's (very wise) comments in this regard.

At the end of the day what can be achieved by a given rider on a given bike under given tire, road, suspension, temperature etc conditions is purely a matter of judgement and skill.

Rather off topic but whatever...

15. Just asking this question means that you're likely ready to go and take either the ART or full racing course from West Coast Superbike School.

Alternately if you want to play with getting the feel for this sort of level of riding then at least come out to one of the track days where you can do so with a little more safety than on the open roads. For example there's just the right sort of track day scheduled for tomorrow at Pitt Meadows airport.

But to answer your question as it was asked.... if you are smooth enough and don't try to exceed the traction circle shown by DNA then yes you can lean the bike until the pegs or exhaust or cases scrape. That's the limit though. If you try to lean further then the hard parts of the bike will lever the tires off the ground. And since hard parts have less traction than tires if you push that hard then it's time to check out the ditch.

Leaning to the inside shifts the center of gravity of the package made up of you and the bike. This lets you lean a little further before the hard parts drag and lever the tires off the ground. But again if you're riding to that level you have NO margin of safety left to deal with anything and this level of cornering should only be used on the race track. At that level of cornering you're on the ragged edge and there's nothing left to let you tighten your line or to deal with the upset from even a small pothole or anything else.

16. So judging by that diagram you will slide at or above 1g (including lean, acceleration and deceleration?)? Seems kinda low. Any Physic's major's on here?

B.

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