IS Canada's social fabric unravelling?
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  1. #1
    backslider Array K-rod's Avatar
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    IS Canada's social fabric unravelling?

    First the Monty Robinson debacle - now this ... :



    Surrey's mega-home controversy becoming culture war

    Indo-Canadian driven Surrey Ratepayers Association wants more floor space in homes
    By Kent Spencer, The ProvinceNovember 19, 2009 7:15 AMComments (127)
    StoryPhotos ( 2 )


    South Westminster Ratepayers Assoc. pres. Grant Rice is opposed to plans to increase house sizes by 25 per cent across the board in Surrey.

    The ProvinceSurrey faces a “cultural divide” over monster homes, says Rick Hart, president of the Fleetwood Community Association.

    Hart said Wednesday that “agitation” has been evident at public meetings between Indo-Canadians, who support mega-houses, and other residents, including Caucasians. “I’ve heard choice words used,” said Hart, a 30-year resident who has attended public meetings for years.

    “It is disheartening to see. This is not a good thing. Nobody wants to see a division of cultures.”

    Mayor Dianne Watts acknowledged that mega homes are becoming a cultural issue in Surrey. “I don’t think it’s healthy,” she said Wednesday. “We need to take into consideration the diverse cultures and make sure we are doing all the right things. The issues are not easily resolved. They have been around 20 years.”

    The Surrey Ratepayers Association, a 4,200 member group which is largely composed of Indo-Canadians, wants to increase house-size maximums by 1,000 square feet across the city.

    “In some cultures, nobody wants to talk about a cultural divide. You think it will go away, but sometimes it doesn’t. Even if you put a lid on top of this thing, it just boils and it will blow,” Hart said.

    Harpreet Singh, a host at Radio India, said there is “very definitely” a cultural divide in Surrey. “The reason for this is the needs of the family in the South Asian culture. Their needs are different than the mainstream,” he said.

    “This is not a good trend for the community. It needs to be sorted out as soon as possible,” said Singh.

    “New immigrants come from a background where they live with extended families,” he said. “It’s unfair for the city or anyone else to break them up because of zoning bylaws. . . . this is not the way many of these families live.

    “The family concept for new immigrants is different, they live with extended families for a variety of reasons, including money issues. There are strong cultural and racial tones to this issue,” said Cheema.

    Surrey Ratepayers vice-president Kalvinder Bassi admitted he has heard “some people voicing strong opinions” at meetings, but he doesn’t believe there is a cultural schism.

    “This is more about a genuine need than a cultural thing. We should be able to live and let live,” he said.

    “I understand the cultural need for extended families’ living quarters. It doesn’t mean everybody in Surrey needs to accept their lifestyle,” he said.



    * * * * *



    I quote Harpreet Singh: “The reason for this is the needs of the family in the South Asian culture. Their needs are different than the mainstream,” he said.


    SO I ask you all:

    Should Canadian values and trends bend and conform to suit all of the whims and whirls of all the newcomers coming here who may believe different things, or hold differing lifestyles values - or should, perhaps, the newcomers (from WHERE-EVER they may be coming from) be required to adopt to Canadian ways and perspectives and 'values' ... ?

    What are an individual's "needs" ?

    Are we as Canadians a 'value-less culture/society', having been beaten into total submission, confusion and fear by political correctness run amok ?


    Sheesh - we wonder why nobody cares about all the other stuff going on around us ... there's so much bullshit one doesn't know which way to turn.

    Last edited by K-rod; 11-19-2009 at 11:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Swivel on it Array SkydiveSonic's Avatar
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    It’s unfair for the city or anyone else to break them up because of zoning bylaws
    Some would say it's unfair for Canadians to have to bend over backwards to suit people moving into Canada.
    If you wanna say something, speak into the mic. It's right above my balls.

  3. #3
    Swivel on it Array SkydiveSonic's Avatar
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    I know this is most likely fake, but I agree with the senitment:

    Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'

    'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

    'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'

    'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

    'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

    'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,

    'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

    'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

    Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, American and Canadian citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths.
    If you wanna say something, speak into the mic. It's right above my balls.

  4. #4
    Lee RideFar Array elevation's Avatar
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    Hey Kent can I buy ya a beer or two? You need to relax! Put down the province, cancel your subscription.

    I am serious about the beer, life is too short to get caught up in this.

  5. #5
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    you come to this country, you follow the rules. don't like it? go back home.

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    Thank You Vets Array jafkaf81's Avatar
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    I don't care about the house size , it's the tax money lost . If you have a huge family living in 1 house it becomes a funding issue , not a race issue . Property tax pays for thing's like schools and hospitals , but if that school has to teach and supply 5 kids from 1 house that only pay a tax that is based on (Quoting H. Sing) a "mainstream" family unit , example: 2 kids , that burdens the school buget by 150% , now times that by all of the house in the area questioned , or any other area . Same goes for a Hospital serving a population 150% greater than what the funding is set for ............if you don't believe it google bc budget shortfalls for diferent schools or hospitals , Mission had to cancel Emercency care and redirect people to Abby , how many schools are underfunded right now ........this is not a race issue , it is a big family not paying enough taxes ( their fair share) or multiple families in one home paying 1 tax per year where we should be getting 2 or more . It all adds up to lost $$$$$$$
    I can only surmise that the "2005" in your name is derived from your year of birth. You weren't born yesterday, but pretty damn close to it. - Howattzer to Phantom2005
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    backslider Array K-rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevation View Post
    Hey Kent can I buy ya a beer or two? You need to relax! Put down the province, cancel your subscription.

    I am serious about the beer, life is too short to get caught up in this.

    Sure - I'm always good for a beer.

    Incidentally, however, I'm not overly stressed about any of it, merely informed and living life with my eys open .. because when we ignore important things (and Canadians are notorious for that - seems as though we were educated to allow the 'system' to think FOR us because it was deemed to be 'good' and the 'best possible one') then those things will eventually bite us in the ass - they did Orion !!!

    These postings, the socially relevant ones, at least get people thinking - after all, it's winter time!!

  8. #8
    Thank You Vets Array jafkaf81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-rod View Post


    These postings, the socially relevant ones, at least get people thinking - after all, it's winter time!!
    It's the master plan , get them thinking in winter when it's too cold to protest , then distract them in summer with ...
    I can only surmise that the "2005" in your name is derived from your year of birth. You weren't born yesterday, but pretty damn close to it. - Howattzer to Phantom2005
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    And they wonder why rich white people live in gated communities and send their kids to Private schools. Guess their tired of paying for a imigrant family of 12's children to go to school at public ones.

    I totally get where this is coming from, people down the street had two sons and they got married, both living in the house with mom and dad. Finally they one couple moved out and raised kids in their own home.

    The idea for Mom and Dad was the two kids paid the mortgage and they retired off the kids money. Picking vegatables out of fields for Mitchell farms doesn't exactly set up the old Retirment Plan.


    So they save money and pay less in taxes.

    Down the street sits and empty house full of Plants, that doesn't pay any income taxes on the 1/4 in drugs he sells a year. But he pays his $2000 property tax and hydro bills on time and no one gives a shit.


  10. #10
    Back in the saddle Array canuckerstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-rod View Post
    First the Monty Robinson debacle - now this ... :



    Surrey's mega-home controversy becoming culture war

    Indo-Canadian driven Surrey Ratepayers Association wants more floor space in homes
    By Kent Spencer, The ProvinceNovember 19, 2009 7:15 AMComments (127)
    StoryPhotos ( 2 )


    South Westminster Ratepayers Assoc. pres. Grant Rice is opposed to plans to increase house sizes by 25 per cent across the board in Surrey.

    The ProvinceSurrey faces a “cultural divide” over monster homes, says Rick Hart, president of the Fleetwood Community Association.

    Hart said Wednesday that “agitation” has been evident at public meetings between Indo-Canadians, who support mega-houses, and other residents, including Caucasians. “I’ve heard choice words used,” said Hart, a 30-year resident who has attended public meetings for years.

    “It is disheartening to see. This is not a good thing. Nobody wants to see a division of cultures.”

    Mayor Dianne Watts acknowledged that mega homes are becoming a cultural issue in Surrey. “I don’t think it’s healthy,” she said Wednesday. “We need to take into consideration the diverse cultures and make sure we are doing all the right things. The issues are not easily resolved. They have been around 20 years.”

    The Surrey Ratepayers Association, a 4,200 member group which is largely composed of Indo-Canadians, wants to increase house-size maximums by 1,000 square feet across the city.

    “In some cultures, nobody wants to talk about a cultural divide. You think it will go away, but sometimes it doesn’t. Even if you put a lid on top of this thing, it just boils and it will blow,” Hart said.

    Harpreet Singh, a host at Radio India, said there is “very definitely” a cultural divide in Surrey. “The reason for this is the needs of the family in the South Asian culture. Their needs are different than the mainstream,” he said.

    “This is not a good trend for the community. It needs to be sorted out as soon as possible,” said Singh.

    “New immigrants come from a background where they live with extended families,” he said. “It’s unfair for the city or anyone else to break them up because of zoning bylaws. . . . this is not the way many of these families live.

    “The family concept for new immigrants is different, they live with extended families for a variety of reasons, including money issues. There are strong cultural and racial tones to this issue,” said Cheema.

    Surrey Ratepayers vice-president Kalvinder Bassi admitted he has heard “some people voicing strong opinions” at meetings, but he doesn’t believe there is a cultural schism.

    “This is more about a genuine need than a cultural thing. We should be able to live and let live,” he said.

    “I understand the cultural need for extended families’ living quarters. It doesn’t mean everybody in Surrey needs to accept their lifestyle,” he said.



    * * * * *



    I quote Harpreet Singh: “The reason for this is the needs of the family in the South Asian culture. Their needs are different than the mainstream,” he said.


    SO I ask you all:

    Should Canadian values and trends bend and conform to suit all of the whims and whirls of all the newcomers coming here who may believe different things, or hold differing lifestyles values - or should, perhaps, the newcomers (from WHERE-EVER they may be coming from) be required to adopt to Canadian ways and perspectives and 'values' ... ?

    What are an individual's "needs" ?

    Are we as Canadians a 'value-less culture/society', having been beaten into total submission, confusion and fear by political correctness run amok ?


    Sheesh - we wonder why nobody cares about all the other stuff going on around us ... there's so much bullshit one doesn't know which way to turn.

    Make them pay higher taxes like Jafka says. If a family wants to live together in a home, who is anyone to tell them differently. This is an issue of making the system being brought up to the reality of the situation, not forcing people to live a certain way.

    Are Canadians a value-less society? YES.

    What IS Canadian culture? What is it that Canadians hold onto so dearly that K-rod you're so adamant in protecting?

    In my opinion, as an immigrant that grew up in Canada, I think it's acceptance and understanding of other culture's needs that makes Canada special. Not a bunch of bigots telling people how they should live.
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    You're paying them to leave.

  11. #11
    Registered User Array OneTrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sushigrl View Post
    you come to this country, you follow the rules. don't like it? go back home.
    That's all well and good, but people whose families have lived here for generations don't follow the friggin' rules....

  12. #12
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    I would not care about house sizes in a neighborhood of similar sized houses - but it's the density and strain they put on services that is not thought out.

    They can build a 8000 sft house on a 6000 sft piece of land, then there is 15 people living in that house - they have 8 cars, and consume many times the water of a smaller house, outputting 5 times the trash of a family of 4.
    How does a city maintain that and living standards?

    The parking situation is the worst for me - I live in large house next to several others - but the street parking is ridiculous!
    "Life is tough; it's tougher when you're stupid." -John Wayne

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    Thank You Vets Array jafkaf81's Avatar
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    Warning This will come across as racist --it is not

    Quote Originally Posted by canuckerstone View Post
    Make them pay higher taxes like Jafka says. If a family wants to live together in a home, who is anyone to tell them differently. This is an issue of making the system being brought up to the reality of the situation, not forcing people to live a certain way.

    Are Canadians a value-less society? YES.

    What IS Canadian culture? (A)--- What is it that Canadians hold onto so dearly that K-rod you're so adamant in protecting?
    In my opinion, as an immigrant that grew up in Canada, I think it's (B)--- acceptance and understanding of other culture's needs that makes Canada special. Not a bunch of bigots telling people how they should live.
    Highlighted quote above --- (A)--This is a tough question as always , and one usually only an immigrant would ask......, I usually say, if you have to ask then you just don't get it and likely never will . (B)---Canadians do , for the most part accept other cultures and have an understanding of differences ( know for this world wide), but how do you consider it Bigots telling people right from wrong , when those who chose to come here, try and change or manipulate the laws of a country that their grandfathers and ancestors fought and died for, to build and protect . The London mega mousqe project was found to be funded by "labeled" terrorist organizations , and when police and public attention was called to this, white's were labeled racist and like you say Bigots ....... Italian Gov just arrested the #2 in Cosa Nostra ( a caucasian) , they ( police ) weren't labeled racist ......this is a pattern and that pattern in turn creates racism , just as the pattern of RCMP protecting their own creates dis-trust from he public ....it is a simple concept . You can't have your cake and eat it too........
    Last edited by jafkaf81; 11-19-2009 at 01:36 PM.
    I can only surmise that the "2005" in your name is derived from your year of birth. You weren't born yesterday, but pretty damn close to it. - Howattzer to Phantom2005
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  14. #14
    Supporting Sponsor/Vendor Array GSXRKK6's Avatar
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    Surrey used to be a nice middle class community, where a family could buy a house with a property and make a go of it. Now you have these "mega" houses, each with 2 or 3 suites (which are usually used as low income housing).

    They want an extra 1000 sq. ft.? Get rid of all suites and you will have the extra 1000 sq. ft. Canada was a very different place when my family came here +30 years ago.

  15. #15
    Registered User Array canuck's Avatar
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    These folks seem to be using the tools of change that our society set up.

    How is that the downfall of our "Canadian" culture?


    If they play by the rules, and get what they want, then you should blame the city government, not the people who used the tools that "we" set up.

    Democracy in action.

    (Not that I would want to live beside a monster house)

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