braking while turning

1. ## braking while turning

im sure everyone who took a course has been taught: "no braking while turning"

we all know that it is possible, and sometimes the only option, so what is the best technique for braking while turning so that you keep the rubber down?
50% rear, 50% front?
all front?
all rear?

ive been using 50/50, but is this best? perhaps the track guys will have some more insight on this.

2.

3. you know your reaching the limits of your tires/bike when you start loosing grip and the front or back end starts to slide. Thats when I stop applying force to the brakes and slowly let off again to regain composure.

4. I'm not pro but have had to brake numerous times in sharp corners last summer on the gold river highway, I didn't use the back brake cause I engined braked (same effect I guess), I used the front brake with no problems, yes it'll want to make the bike straighten up abit but it's easily held in the corner... hmmm leaning over farther can work too...

5. I'm sure you are all aware of the traction circle:

http://www.teammatrix.com.my/Driving/traction.html

6. Cosworth, that is for cars. I've yet to take the ART course or any course but I think bikes are different ,..no? I always try to use 70/ 30 when braking hard. But in the corners if need be, I shoot for 50/50. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

7. I know its for cars. If you think bikes have different laws of physics then go right ahead but I won't ride with you. Rubber is rubber. %100 grip is absolute. If you think otherwise you will be a road crayon.

8. Originally posted by David
Cosworth, that is for cars. I've yet to take the ART course or any course but I think bikes are different ,..no? I always try to use 70/ 30 when braking hard. But in the corners if need be, I shoot for 50/50. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

70 = 30 = 100

50 = 50 = 100

You're telling me you ride at %100 all the time. Right on your tire's limits?

9. No, he's talking about ratio of front to rear braking and whether he should change how he brakes if braking in a corner.

10. Originally posted by cosworth
70 = 30 = 100

50 = 50 = 100

You're telling me you ride at %100 all the time. Right on your tire's limits?
You forgot, his equation is relative.

70% + 30% of braking force applied is applied to the front/rear respectively. The same with 50/50

The equation must add to 100%, of the applied braking force, not of the total available braking force.

Cars and bikes have slightly different braking physics. Lateral force is different between cars and bikes. Lateral force plays a part in the physical equation. Hence, the physics do differ. I do not have the information to debate how much they differ, only that they do indeed differ.

Jim.

11. That makes toal sense then.

12. Geez Cos, did'nt mean to contradict you. Just that cars don't have the capability to manually control front to rear braking ratio in the cockpit. What I was hoping to find out is the proper ratio (front to rear) for bikes in the corners.

13. You're missing the point David. It is not about braking bias. It is about your grip in a turn. Read the article closely to see that lateral forces require grip. Braking in a turn require the tires to have grip along an X / Y axis.

14. Ok what ever....back to the question at hand..Last season i had been practicing trail breaking techniques..getting on the brakes hard prior to the corner and easing off near or at the apex of the corner which allowed me to flick the bike over later and quicker and allowing me faster corner entry and the ability to get on the gas sooner. I was braking deep into the corner using the front only into the corner and the rear prior to entry. I am not a racer nor a pro but did some research on techniques rode with some fast guys and practiced.. it felt really comfortable and smoothe.
Look at guys like Freddie Spencer..watch some old footage of him racing his double season gp. the only way he could beat Roberts who's bike made more hp's was to find a way to stuff him in the corners..This guy basically pionered the boundries of mid corner braking..ive seen footage of him braking hard into a corner with the front wheel facing into the corner (thats the opposite of counter steering folks just to get a visual) skidding on the front to scrub off speed..
Not that i know anyone in my circle of riding buddies that can do that but im just saying yeah braking in the cornner is more than possible but it takes practice to do it right so dont just assume ohter people can do it so you can too...go take an advanced rider course

15. In the racing course and in the ART course you learn how to go into a corner using LOTS of front brake and feather it off progressively as you lean slowly into the corner. This method relies on the weight transfer to add lots of extra grip to the front tire patch. But if you want to put the brakes on WHILE in the corner then you'd better do it lightly and carefully as the tire loads don't benifit from the weight transfer bias being preset during the braking on the approach.

Personally at that point I either stand it up slightly as I apply the brakes or just rely on leaning further. Standing it up halfway is the way to do it if you NEED to stop. As your speed bleeds off the turn radius will tighten thanks to the reducing speed so running wide is not a problem..... usually and if you do it right.

NO BACK BRAKE THOUGH.... or at least it should be light application and in concert with the front. But here again as the front is applied and the transfer of the load takes place you can lean on it harder as long as you're not leaned very far.

16. brake b-4 you turn

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