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ICBC Questions... Can anyone working in the insurance field answer?

2K views 21 replies 12 participants last post by  michael 
#1 ·
Hey,

I rear ended someone with my car in March. My discount level dropped from -7 to -2 (35% to 10%).


Question 1:

This is a very rare and complex case, I rear ended him in the morning, and he rear ended someone else in the afternoon. How can ICBC determine which accident caused the injury? I'm assuming it's in their best interest to say my accident caused the injuries to him because then my premiums go up as well as his for his accident. I offered to pay out his vehicle repairs but because he is claiming an injury, that is no longer an option at this time. Is there anything I can do to dispute the injury claim? I hit him at 20-30km and we were both rolling at the time, it was on the Pattullo bridge on ramp during rush hour traffic in the morning so I'm sure you can imagine how slow we were moving.


Question 2:

I read somewhere that when the discount level drops, if you own multiple vehicles you can share the discount loss or transfer the points to another plate... Is this true? Can I transfer a loss of discount from my car to my bike, perhaps?


Question 3:

Or perhaps... transfer my insurance to a 50cc scooter with basic insurance only? I'm thinking... maybe I'll pick up another cheap low CC bike or scooter >110cc (lowest insurance bracket?) and only put basic insurance on it to absorb my discount loss? And keep my 35% (40% in November) on my car and my bike...



This year hasn't been a very lucky year for me in regards to vehicles and transportation... But is what I've thought about above for Q2/Q3 a legit plan?
 
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#2 ·
OH and one more question...

If I only insure for 3 months a year... will that count towards the claim rated scale or does it have to be done through full year at a time? Maybe I can insure the cheap bike for 3 months every September (as my car and bike are up for renewal in October) and preserve my discount on the two of them while only taking the point less on the bike for 3 months a year? And when I've regained my full discount I'll just sell the cheap bike or give it away?

I'm thinking like this... I would save about $775 a year on my car insurance at 40% discount, I would save about $550 a year on my bike insurance at 40% discount. That's $1325 a year.

If I buy a cheap bike for a couple hundred and just plate it... It doesn't even have to run! Insurance for 3 months would maybe be $150 at 0% discount based on what I was paying for my CBR125. I'd maybe be out $550 this year for cost of cheap shitty non running bike but just to plate it plus insurance...

Do I have a smart idea? Or is this stupid and has no chance?

Right now I will save $721 according to my insurance renewal papers, if I can work it out to even save an extra $5 it would be worth it just to stick it to ICBC. But based on the calculation above, if I save $1325 a year minus $721 (cause I already save that) = $604 - $150 = another $454 savings per year... if my plan works.
 
#3 ·
Discounts don't apply to scooters, they changed that years ago, because of people doing what you want to do.

Pickup a phone and call a autoplan agent or icbc
 
#5 ·
Discounts don't apply to scooters, they changed that years ago, because of people doing what you want to do.
Hmmm maybe I can get another 125cc motorcycle. Same idea as a scooter :) I'm really going to weigh the cost/benefit to find out if it's worth while to go through the hassle. From what I've calculated so far, it seems like it is worth it...



And damn, that sucks about the injury part! Thanks though. I'll just leave it as is then... Now to find an economical way to avoid my drop in insurance discount....

I thought they only log your discount by years insured? So technically, if what you're saying is correct... I could just buy a cheap bike and insure it with basic insurance to take the discount loss... This makes sense to me, how bout everyone else? If I thought of this, has anyone else? Anyone else doing anything like this to preserve their insurance discount?
 
#4 ·
You don't have to insure anything to gain a discount on the rating scale. They only track years of claim free driving, not what you're insuring.

As far as disputing his injury claim, you're screwed. ICBC will deal with his lawyer and doctor reports and either dispute or (more likely) settle his injury claim. There's nothing you can do about that and it's best you don't get involved.
 
#8 ·
Right now, your penalized rate only applies to one vehicle. So, if you have no vehicles insured today, your first policy you open up tomorrow would be at your worst rate (eg: the one with the rear-ender). If you opened a second policy, it would be at your best rate (35% was it in your case?).

IIRC, if you cancel the first policy, ICBC reserves the right to (eventually) transfer the higher rate from the first policy onto the remaining insured vehicle, and back-charge you for the months you didn't pay the higher rate. That might not happen for months though, and then you get slapped with a somewhat hefty bill. I'm sure some people slip through the cracks on this one, but I haven't walked in those shoes so can't say from personal experience.

If both policies remain in effect, I am not sure if ICBC can (or would) transfer the heightened premiums to the most expensive of the two vehicles. The idea of insuring a CBR125 or equivalent for a year, letting it eat up the penalized insurance policy, to maintain cheaper insurance on other vehicles, may actually work. I'm not totally sure on that one.
 
#14 ·
IIRC, if you cancel the first policy, ICBC reserves the right to (eventually) transfer the higher rate from the first policy onto the remaining insured vehicle, and back-charge you for the months you didn't pay the higher rate. That might not happen for months though, and then you get slapped with a somewhat hefty bill. I'm sure some people slip through the cracks on this one, but I haven't walked in those shoes so can't say from personal experience.
I was doing some reading a few months ago, and the higher rate certainly does transfer to the other insured vehicle.

IIRC, ICBC told me that they would put the higher rate on the vehicle that's more expensive to insure.
 
#9 ·
In 1997 I got into a rear ender accident causing a minimal amount of damage. It affected my rate drastically. In 2005 when I started riding I was still dealing with the shitty rate. So I pulled the insurance off the car and insured my 400c motorcycle. ICBC hated it but they could do nothing about it. My bike had the "bad" rate and when I insured my car it had the "good" rate. Now I have the "made man" or "rock star" rate of -15. So yes you can switch your insurance on two vehicles but ICBC hates it and they know what your doing. You have to take your car off the road for it to work. Since ICBC has to insure you they can't deny you.

The one caveat they might get you on is if you have the same car you got into the rear ender. They may be able to force the shitty rate then.
 
#10 ·
Oh okay!! Wow thanks for the tips! I'll go talk to an insurance agent tomorrow and let you guys know.

If I drop my car insurance, then insure a cheap bike, then reinstate my car insurance and have the negative rate transfer back to the car, it's obviously not worth it lol

I did read somewhere that you can split the discount loss over vehicles or transfer it to another title instead of the one involved in the accident. If that's possible, that's what I'll do. I think at this point, it may even be worth it to just transfer my discount loss to my motorcycle. It's just a ninja 250, so i'll pay an extra $500 insurance for the bike vs an extra $700 for my car, so I'll still at least save $200 there...
 
#12 ·
Question 1:

This is a very rare and complex case, I rear ended him in the morning, and he rear ended someone else in the afternoon. How can ICBC determine which accident caused the injury? I'm assuming it's in their best interest to say my accident caused the injuries to him because then my premiums go up as well as his for his accident. I offered to pay out his vehicle repairs but because he is claiming an injury, that is no longer an option at this time. Is there anything I can do to dispute the injury claim? I hit him at 20-30km and we were both rolling at the time, it was on the Pattullo bridge on ramp during rush hour traffic in the morning so I'm sure you can imagine how slow we were moving.
First things first, I'm not in the industry as you request but here's my $0.02 anyway.

ICBC doesn't care who caused the injury, the only relevant fact is who was at fault in the collision, in the case of a rear ender it's always the driver behind (I'm sure there have been wierd exceptions in the past but 99.9% of the time it's the motorist behind at fault)

I'll assume you want to dispute which accident caused his injury in order to proceed as you wish and pay out the accident in which you are found at fault to avoid an increase to your premiums

If this is the case, your logical next step would be to make a judgment call on what this is worth to you.

If it's worth it, and you want to go after it, your next step would be to inform ICBC of your intent to dispute that the collision that involved you was the one that caused the other motorist's injuries. Keep in mind that this probably means a lawyer is getting involved on your behalf (you can bet ICBC will be getting their lawyers involved.)

On the surface this situation sounds like it could get VERY expensive, much more so than your increase in premiums for a few years.

Dude, it sounds like you're the victim of some shitty luck, sorry.
 
#19 ·
How can ICBC determine which accident caused the injury?
Happens more often than you think. "Velocity change," is a tool, but also medical condition both pre, and post collision. Remember that your insurer is *defending* you against claims against your policy. That motorist is making a claim against your policy.

I read somewhere that when the discount level drops, if you own multiple vehicles you can share the discount loss or transfer the points to another plate... Is this true?
No, this is not true. The Claims Rated Scale (CRS, aka "discount") is based on the vehicle involved in the crash, or it's replacement. This is important. ICBC will not charge you an increased rate on every vehicle you own. For example, crash your '72 Pinto by rear ending a Crown Victoria, and your premiums go up on that vehicle. You scrap it, and get another vehicle, and policy. The CRS will follow that policy. The instances where the CRS impact goes to a "more expensive," vehicle, is when the crashed vehicle does not get replaced. Then, upon a subsequent renewal (not right away, depending on the circumstances of the claim), the increased CRS will affect the other vehicle you may happen to own.

Or perhaps... transfer my insurance to a 50cc scooter with basic insurance only? I'm thinking... maybe I'll pick up another cheap low CC bike or scooter >110cc (lowest insurance bracket?) and only put basic insurance on it to absorb my discount loss? And keep my 35% (40% in November) on my car and my bike
Yes, that strategy of avoiding an "earned," increase in premiums has been tried, sometimes successfully, before. While the scooter or trashed 125cc motorcycle languishes in a garage, the real risk is getting the other vehicle involved in a crash, and an alert adjuster picks up on it. The increase in unfortunate, and hurts the wallet, but it's the same system of asssessing risk against premium used by insurers around the world. Take the hit for the next 3 years, ensuring you're properly covered in the unlikely event of another crash.

And yes, I am in the business.:angel
 
#20 ·
Michael, thank you for the information :) I'm not going to bother pursuing this any further.

I hope that ICBC rules against his claim in the end, but the only thing I wonder about is will the "higher premiums" I will have paid over the next few months apply to my repayment of his vehicle damages? Will my discount be reinstated and will I get credited for the increase? I'm kind of looking at it in a new light now, I'll be paying an extra $800 this year for insurance but the estimate for his repairs were $1200. Say he gets denied the claim in a year... Will I be given the opportunity to repay his claim for repairs on his vehicle, get my full discount back, and credited for the money I should have saved?
 
#22 ·
Will I be given the opportunity to repay his claim for repairs on his vehicle, get my full discount back, and credited for the money I should have saved?
Good question. Repayment of a claim can make good financial sense under certain circumstances, and this may be one of them. (for example, the total amount of repairs is $1200, yet you may be asked to pay a total increase of $2400 over the three year impact to your Claims Rated Scale. Better to spent the $1200.).
I recommend you bring that question up to your adjuster who can guide you through it.
 
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