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August 25th The Ridge- OPRT

7K views 52 replies 21 participants last post by  Land Roving 
#1 · (Edited)
YO!

I know there's 4 of us in already.
Hope to see you a few of you make it down.

I think I am going to bump upto level 300 with Mike76. I will get my ass spanked but that's fine. Atleast I can depend on people holding their lines. We have been asked to bump up.

Please discuss the following

There's too much of a skill spread in 200 these days and I feel they are not policing it well enough.

There's people that can ride well, hold their lines and be consistent, but they do not warrant laptimes worthy of group 300...
and there's riders that can't hold their line without drifting wide or wobble due to being on/off the gas mid corner - I think they need to be bumped down into group 100!
We cannot abide to the passing on the outside only rule (group 200) if riders are drifting wide. So the rule is constantly broken.

I've had 2 trackdays in a row with guys going down the straight and they have changed their line very abruptly and I got cut off. (mission and the ridge) Troy talked to the guy at mission. thank you :)

Last week at the ridge an instructor and I came up fast on a rider about 3/4 down the straight.
Dude cut the instructor off (not sure if he ate shit for that) and I cut off hard by both of them.. immediately after there was a crash behind us. Luckily I wasn't going in super hard (heavy traffic) and was able to adjust and squeeze by. I am not sure if it was related (I will bet it was) but there was about 6-7 bikes going into turn one. 3 corners later I saw the red flag raised an I was looking for a new buddy that we had adopted to our pit. Unfortunately, and sure enough... he went off the track - destroying his 2012 Aprilia Tuono. (see Aug 7th ridge thread for pics) I did talk to him and asked specifically if that was the cause and he said "no". I think he could have had a few riders in-between us and he just didn't really know. (We had passed him mid straight too.)

Personally, I think riders should also have to take some sort of written course or a ART course before they are allowed onto a track period. I believe this is true for mission.

Some of these guys don't have basic body positioning and all they are out there to do is film each other with their fucking go pros. I have seen a packs of them; once with 5-6 riders and another time with as many as 8-9 riders! 2 cameras on each bike! and they stay together. BULLSHIT!:devillook
 
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#2 ·
Hey kim

Interesting and valid points...last time i was out with pssr at the ridge it was jam packed....there were certainly some riders in the fast group who did not belong there for safety reasons....we must remember that it is the responsibility of the passing rider to do it safely....the group i ride with discussed what a safe lap time would be to ride in the fast group....the concensus was anything under 2 minute lap....with that said you must remember that there will be people running laps close to 20 seconds faster than that....i am currently now running under 1:50 on a consistant basis. It is great to see riders jump up to the fast group and improve their times...in general i do find it to a safer group though speeds are faster....hold your lines and it wont be an issue....just be aware that you will be passed anywhere on the track....that itself takes a little time to get use to....i am going to beg and plead with my boss tomorrow to give me that day offf....will keep you posted


Ride safe

Ross
 
#8 · (Edited)
weird I posted from my phone days ago... and it never showed up here...

I'm cool with getting passed anywhere as long as I don't get stuffed horribly. That is the only track rule for 300... I think?
I will be just going for good clean fast lines and it will be easy enough for faster
guys to pass me anywhere they want.

Again, sorry for the late response. Hope to see you down there Ross.
 
#3 ·
That's gotta be up to the track day providers to police that. And it might be up to you to snitch to get them aware of the riders, if you want to go that route.
But remember rule No. 1 - this isn't a race, and it's up to you to leave the margin so you can get around the track safely.

Now, that being said, there is ego involved here. "100? I've been riding for 10 years! I don't need to ride with rookies!" Or "100? I've got a Panigale! I'll be waaay too fast for the slow bikes!" It was the same at Pitt Meadows last week. I was out in the expert group, and it was a mixed bag of talent.

That same mixed bag resulted in a big-ass crash - one slow guy who shouldn't have been in our group got taken out by a faster, my aggressive rider, who didn't give himself any margin when passing this guy. They came together and BOOM. There were several riders on bike, expensive, fast bikes who shouldn't have been in "300" but for whatever reason, they thought they could hack it with the fast guys .... nope.

It's really to you to make any passes safely, and account for lack of skill or unpredictability in front of you ...
 
#15 ·
A bit of advice for those moving from middle to fast group:

Your straight line and mid corner speed is not that much slower than a fast rider, the disparity comes in your entry and exit speed. If a fast rider is 20 seconds per lap faster than you, 13 of those seconds are made up during the 30 seconds per lap in which you are entering or exiting a corner. He is probably only 7 seconds per lap faster in mid corner and straight line speed,

So with that in mind…. There are a few things you can do to stay safe when you move up to the fast group:

- Lines that may have seemed perfectly normal to you when you were the fastest in the middle group, might not so normal to the riders in the faster group. Just be open to that idea.

- At the same time.... DO NOT assume that just because they are in the faster group, they are doing it right!

- Faster riders EXPECT you to always be tight to the apex at every corner; do not intentionally leave room on the inside at the apex. If you are going to leave room, leave room on the outside on the entry and exit. Don't use the whole track at first.

- When you DO start using the whole track, position yourself for a wide entry sooner than later. Avoid approaching a corner on the gas at mid track, initiate braking and then move over to set up wide for the entry at the last second. Faster riders are literally going to be going 30-60 mph faster than you at the very early stages of the corners. If they are planning an outside pass entering a corner, and you move over AFTER you start braking you are seriously increasing the chances of getting hit.

- Never ever apex turn one on your out lap. Sooner or later you are going to join a session already in progress and fast riders are literally going to be moving 60 mph faster than you at the apex of turn one. Stay on the RIGHT of the seam through turn one on your outlap. (The seam is 12 feet from the RIGHT side of the track in turn one)

-Avoid any abrupt line changes. For example if a few riders are riding slow in front of you for whatever reason, do not weave through them. Try to pass multiple riders on one trajectory. If your initial plan to pass 2 at once did not work…. Do not change line in mid corner. Be patient and pass the next slow person at the next corner. In the middle group you could get away with a line change, but now you are going to be changing your line in front of someone that is going much faster than you.

-How are these other riders going so fast? Understand this……. They are not using your technique and doing it “faster and harder” . The super-fast riders are doing things differently than you. Search out new understanding of how/when/where to apply the brakes/throttle/steering and you will be able to go faster without crashing. Resist the temptation to blindly chase speed; focus on technique and the speed will easily come.
 
#16 · (Edited)
my 99¢

track days are not race days. track days are competitive, but they are not competitions. people are there to learn and practice.

i think the responsibility for passing at track days falls on both riders. slower riders should recognize when they've been caught by a faster rider and ease up at an appropriate spot to let the fast rider by safely. in turn the faster rider should give the slower rider a bit of space and pass when safe to do so. this is more critical at the 100 and 200 levels, not so much at the 300 level. by 400 you should know what your doing and if a guy is going to pass you then he has to earn it.

and sometimes, to go faster, one must first go slower.
 
#17 ·
I have to disagree with you to some extent, Syncro.
You shouldn't really be paying attention to what's behind you, or who's coming up. If you take attention off what's ahead of you, that's when you get in trouble. The biggest thing is to be PREDICTABLE.
That's what chuffs Kim so much - the guys who decided to suddenly swing out or in, completely changing their lines. Come to think of it, that's what gets me, too. Hold a gawwdamn line. And if you can't do that, you should be in the beginner group.
Most of the time, the fast guys will find a way to pass you safely and embarrassingly easily. If you feel you're "holding guys up," pit out or don't hammer it on the straights.
 
#18 ·
yeah the line thing and being predictable i totally agree with.

but when you're on the track you know when someone has caught you without needing to look in a mirror - you can feel the heat. this is less so at the beginner levels, but that's why the rules are different for the noobs. when you feel that pressure it's time to ease up and give the guy on your ass the opportunity to pass (even if all you do is hold your line). and the guy wanting to pass needs to pick his spot with the expectation that the rider in front may not be smooth or predictable. again, more so for the 100/200 riders and less so for 300's.

for me it comes back to the fact that track days are not races. track days are where you work on your skills (which include passing) without putting other riders at risk.
 
#20 ·
ps - i should have been clear that i meant ease up on the straights - not so much in the corners.

that's the one thing that's driven me nuts, being a bit faster than someone in the corners but then they wind it up on the straights. too much like typical S2S bullshit.
 
#23 ·
Hey guys, I've been reading through this thread, some good info for us slow guys as far as how to ride. I'll ramble on a bit of my own.....

I'm no pro, having only attended my 3rd and 4th ever track days at the ridge this year, back in June, with 2-Fast. Did a couple last year with OPRT when a friend talked me into it. Now the only thing that keeps me away is money, and I have no real desire to go fast on the street anymore (well, that's partially true).

I did notice that when I started in 100 last year it really is only for beginners, and even a 2:20 type pace seemed dangerously fast with the big variation in speed/skill amongst the riders. And lines? What lines!
I got bumped into 200 later in the morning and that's when the learning and fun started!

Now I'm down in the low 2 min range, with 2:02 fairly easily attained, so in the same boat as backwheel. Slow, but not super slow anymore. On the faster side of the intermediate level and now I'm noticing the big disparity in speed and skill in this level, just as backwheel mentions. And closing speeds into the braking zones, wow, I've been caught out a couple times coming up on guys that are slowing way before the braking markers. That's taken me a bit by surprise with regards to track days, since I thought my 28yr old, 296mm, 2piston caliper brakes attached to my wimpy 37mm fork tubes were garbage compared to all the fancy giant floating discs I see on the bikes at the track, and I'd think guys riding those would be able to go much deeper into braking zones before hitting those binders.
At least it allows me to get past, because on the front straight everyone just blows past with there modern weapons. I find it a bit of a struggle getting past guys, not sure of their lines, and not wanting to piss them off or break the 200 level passing rules, so it seems I'm only able to get a couple clear laps per session if that to practice getting better at my lines and such.

If I bumped into 300 I'm sure I'd learn more riding with the fast guys, though I don't think I want to be one of the slow guys in a group. I think I'll just continue to practice my passing and hone that skill in the intermediate level. It's all fun, regardless!

Now I just have to figure out how I can make it out to another one of these this year! I guess that's what credit cards are for. I might be looking to tag up with someone in early sept if I can swing it.

Cheers guys
 
#24 ·
Hey guys, I've been reading through this thread, some good info for us slow guys as far as how to ride. I'll ramble on a bit of my own.....

I'm no pro, having only attended my 3rd and 4th ever track days at the ridge this year, back in June, with 2-Fast. Did a couple last year with OPRT when a friend talked me into it. Now the only thing that keeps me away is money, and I have no real desire to go fast on the street anymore (well, that's partially true).

I did notice that when I started in 100 last year it really is only for beginners, and even a 2:20 type pace seemed dangerously fast with the big variation in speed/skill amongst the riders. And lines? What lines!
I got bumped into 200 later in the morning and that's when the learning and fun started!

Now I'm down in the low 2 min range, with 2:02 fairly easily attained, so in the same boat as backwheel. Slow, but not super slow anymore. On the faster side of the intermediate level and now I'm noticing the big disparity in speed and skill in this level, just as backwheel mentions. And closing speeds into the braking zones, wow, I've been caught out a couple times coming up on guys that are slowing way before the braking markers. That's taken me a bit by surprise with regards to track days, since I thought my 28yr old, 296mm, 2piston caliper brakes attached to my wimpy 37mm fork tubes were garbage compared to all the fancy giant floating discs I see on the bikes at the track, and I'd think guys riding those would be able to go much deeper into braking zones before hitting those binders.
At least it allows me to get past, because on the front straight everyone just blows past with there modern weapons. I find it a bit of a struggle getting past guys, not sure of their lines, and not wanting to piss them off or break the 200 level passing rules, so it seems I'm only able to get a couple clear laps per session if that to practice getting better at my lines and such.

If I bumped into 300 I'm sure I'd learn more riding with the fast guys, though I don't think I want to be one of the slow guys in a group. I think I'll just continue to practice my passing and hone that skill in the intermediate level. It's all fun, regardless!

Now I just have to figure out how I can make it out to another one of these this year! I guess that's what credit cards are for. I might be looking to tag up with someone in early sept if I can swing it.

Cheers guys
Keep in mind the old adage - speed is 90% rider, 10% bike.

Ninja 250's are lapping 5-6 seconds/lap faster than you can with 29hp and similarly ancient braking systems.

Otherwise sounds like you're on the right track - hope to see you out there!
 
#27 ·
I remember you, you blew by me tons my first time in 300 last year and made me damn near jump every time because you went by me so fast! I remember seeing the little Canadian flag and feeling some what patriotic that another canuck was schooling me so hard.
 
#31 ·
Thanks to all for the great feedback. It is very appreciated!

I think I will will stay in 200 unless I get bumped. Next year I'm going to bump up in tires too.
I'm running the pilot power 3's now. I'll get some sticker tires and then maybe think to go 300.

see you down there. If you're up for the tequila ritual then let's hook up. It is just a few drinks to help you sleep well through the pre track anxiety!
works great ask Mike76! and the others that have joined in!

:)
 
#37 ·
GMR race weekend the day before this, and I'm totally jealous over this. I would so like to join. Have a great time guys. Can't get the time off work.
 
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