Annual review process.
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Thread: Annual review process.

  1. #1
    Administrator Array adamantium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    I wish.

    Annual review process.

    Hello everyone,

    First off, I'd like to thank every single moderator of this site for the endless amount of crap that they put up with in an effort to make BCSB a better place to be. I honestly never thought that I'd see so much drama from a bunch of motorcyclists like we get here - but it becomes blantantly obvious that we have many cliques or camps here, and it's hard to have everyone get along.

    Some folks think it's cool to smoke some weed and go for a spin, others think that they should be tracked down and shot if they are endangering lives. Some folks think shiny helmets are cool, others think heated vests are what is the best. So to each his own absolutetly.

    Here's the thing though - where do we go now?

    I'm really tired of reading name calling on the site - my site transition never went as far as I'd hoped as I became very tied up with other things - and I'll take some blame for not posting clear and conscise rules.

    Ever visit EFNet IRC? Wow, that's a neat place. You so much as make 1 mistake in most chat rooms and they'll ban you for a few days - next mistake, don't bother coming back. 0 tolerance. I've always thought against this with BCSB as we are a local community, and we will be seeing each other around. Most users get many strikes and I can count on one hand the amount of bans in the last couple of years.

    BUT. I'm sick of it. This is a motorcycle website, about motorcycles and the people that ride them. Their is too much bickering in the forums, and as much as some enjoy the day time soaps, I think we can have talks about how a dealer didn't follow through with what they said, or how one bike is faster than the next - or better yet - how that 'idiot' cut you off and you want to say something about it; and we can do this all without causing serous injury. In any case, I'm very seriously tired of reading the dribble I've found myself reading too often. I'm not suggesting everyone should be writing essays, but some of the stuff on here just isn't up to par anymore. Shit disturbers be gone.

    So saying this - These are my frustrations. It's a bit vague I know - but I guess the ultimate quesiton is do you want change here. Do you want to see the rule breakers gone, if not for good, for quite a while.

    I guess annually I write a post like this because I want to know what is missing here. What you want, and what we can all do to make it better.

    My outline:

    Rules laid out very clearly, and what rules we want.
    For some time now the rules haven't been very clear. I've always thought that it goes without saying that racial prejudice has no place here, or anywhere else - but this seems to come up every once in a while. Often as well, we have users calling each other out -- "tough guys" if you will. Harassing other members and suggesting their penis's are really large. I think we need to decide what the line is, and enforce it.

    More moderators added to help enforce and keep a fair line.
    Over the last few months, about 1/2 the original moderation staff has found greener pastures. Big Jim, whom has given a huge amount of effort to this site, paticularly at its start has stepped down from being an administrator to being a 'common' folk user; this of course is among others that have rotated through. I don't think moderators need to stay in for very long -- I think our attention spans are relatively short these days and so many things to do. I've found my own attention wane from time to time -- it's in the best interest of the website to have very active moderators - especially given the growth of the site, and the fact that we are busier than ever.

    Your thoughts, as always, are appreciated.
    BCSB- Administrator

  2. #2
    Born to be WILD Array Tmustang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Port Coquitlam
    2002 Honda CBR 954RR

    I'm still new to this forum (joined sinced Jan.14,2004). I think you're doing an excellent

    job on this site and I find that its the best Bike forum out there ( thats why I joined .)

    As for enforcing the rules on this forum... its not easy to do because of the size of this

    forum and number of new members keeps joining.

    I don't have many advice on this matter but my only suggestion is that;

    If you do see a member getting out of line with his/her posts. Why not PM that

    person and give them a warning based on your decision on what penalty you can think

    of and take it from there to see how that person behave in the future.

    Anyways...keep up the good work and I so glad to be a BCSB MEMBER.

    Last edited by Tmustang; 04-13-2004 at 01:36 AM.
    Tmustang you are clear for take off

  3. #3
    Adam, i notice you have had this line of thinking a few times in the past 2 years. I also do belive that it was disscussed way back about how thinkgs will be alot different when the site gets really big. We all knew it would end up like this, at least most of us did.

    I think when you and Jim first started this pet project you guys never thought it would turn into something this big. But it has. So what to do now...

    Almost 6000 members. Whoa!!! How many of those members do you figure are actually used accounts? How many are local (B.C.) riders? How many sportbike owners are there in B.C? I am going to take a stab in the dark here and say that maybe 65 - 75% are real active users. Even if using means just lerking. That would mean (if i am close with the %) that there are around 3700 to 4400 real members. I think that is a pretty big chunk of the total BC sportbike owners.

    I know i have said that this is your site and you should beable to do anything you want no matter what it is or why but i also think that if you want to keep this site running the way it has (a free public website) then there isnt to much you can do about the way people are going to use the internet. Remeber even though this is a "community" it is still the internet and isnt real life.

    Real life for most that is. To you and many others i am sure it is very real but you have to condider that to many more it isnt. I think cyber world has come along way in the past 5 years. Meeting people off the internet isnt nearly as taboo as it use to be. Online friends and communitys if far more commen these days. However it still has a ways to come...I would say that we are the first generation to use the internet, in masses, for the pourpose to make friends and meet people. Even just to share ideas in a more "personal" manner. Personal as in using threads which can be responded to in a easy a fast manner rather then writing a artical and posting it on the web somewhere.

    My point is that as a society we havent yet accepted the internet as way of life competly yet. Meeting on the net is still not like meeting on the street or at work. I belive that the two will one day be seen as the same but not for a while. So this leads to people being "idiots" on BCSB. Even i am guilty for it. Those of you that know me in real life know that i am not as antagnistic as i am on here. And at the same time i am not nearly to differnet a person on site and off as some people are on here. I know a few people who are so differnt in person then they act on the site, you wouldnt belive it was the same person.

    I belive that if you want to change it and weed out all the "its only the internet people" then you yourself will be forming a cliuqe. (sp?) Is that what you want? A site only geared to a certian group of people? I think this site has grown to big to be turned in to that. This site is all ready country known and even making its way into the states faster then anyone could have dreamed. And i am sure that it will spread world wide in the matter of a few years. It would be ashame to stop that from happening. And that is what would happen if you decide to change anything drastic or start to get really sticky on rules. But maybe becoming one of the biggest sites in canada, america (the continet) or even the world, isnt your goal.

    Maybe you should think about selling the site to a corporation that would like to see it go in that direction. And start a new one that will be more like what you would like. (just a thought).

    I think you and the mods are doing a great job. I dont see anything wrong with the site the way it is. People have to remeber that it is the internet and not real life.

    There are lots of ways that you have put into place that can help users avoid reading the crap. Blocking users, not reading certian threads, mods moving and deleting really bad or miss places threads. Is there a option to stop from seeing certian users posts in threads? This one would be really good if it isnt already there. That way the people that dont like to hear waht i have to say can never hear from me again. If they chosse to keep reading and replying the they have no one to blame but themselfs.

    Anyways i will quit rammbeling on seeing as my spelling is getting worse by the second.

    I would vollenteer being a mod but i know that i wouldnt be able to go offonce in a while like i do. I have to be politicly correct and non partial enough in life. I like it that i cant take a strong stand on a issue on here. And when some one pisses me off enough (which as you know is rare) i want to beable to call them names and tell them that i would knock them out if i ever meet them. But you see i am different. I would never say anthing on here that i dont mean. I just let out more on here then i do in real life as lots of us do...

    Keep the site as is chief you guys are doing a great job.

    My $1 worth

  4. #4
    Nite Rider Array Shimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Honda NC19
    You should do what you feel like. It's your wesite and if you have a vision of what it should be like then go for it. People will still come and go.

    I've visited the site 2 - 3 times a day since the middle of 2002 and I have noticed that a lot of people that were "prominent" members before (CDG, FloMan, etc.) seem to have disappeared. For what reasons though I have no idea. I've also noticed what you said about moderators. It seems moderators tend to lose interest or whatever. It's like a job. When it's something that you HAVE TO do you begin to lose interest. I remember when Harps first became a moderator. He was post whoring like crazy. Now I only read a post from him every so often.

    Anyways, I guess I think that if you (as the owner of the site) really want to ban people for good then go right ahead. You're in a dilemma since people will just bithc bitch bitch no matter what you do so might as well do what you feel is best. Besides, there are alternatives for those that don't like it here.
    SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING : Quitting 2-Stroking Now Greatly Reduces Serious Risks to Other People's Health.

  5. #5
    Adam, you're never going to be able to make everyone happy. You're never going to be able to get so many people to get along without a hitch. Worrying over it just seems so pointless...does it really bug you that much? You don't find it kinda funny when idiots call each other out? If anything, it really shows someone's true colors if they want to beat someone up because they got dissed on the internet.

    It also remains somewhat unclear what you mean by "harassment", I suppose, because you've been pretty lenient about it in the past. Whether or not people agree with your definition of unacceptable behavior, however, you'll get even more complaints if people think some members are being favored over others. An exact definition of harassment would leave less room for any perceived bias.

    And for those who want to avoid the bickering, there are PLENTY of options. For those who don't like the drama, just avoid threads that are titled "Shitty service at _________", or "To the DUMBASS on the ________ who cut me off on the S2S". For those with a beef with certain members, there are PMs, and Ignore options. That's plenty, Adam, don't try to please those who want you to go out and personally assassinate every jerk on BCSB. This isn't a Mensa club meeting, and those who expect it to be should get their uppity asses a reality check. For the sheer number of active members, the amount of crap that gets posted really isn't that bad.

    As much as people complain about your rules, I find this forum immensely democratic. If you really want to see what the members think, why not start a poll? Then it's really up to you whether or not you want to change things. I enjoy this forum, and don't see the problems as all that serious.
    Last edited by Ivy; 04-13-2004 at 02:07 AM.

  6. #6
    My only complaint is the "poll" option. I feel it should be bloodily and gruesomely removed from the normal forums. Perhaps there could be a "Poll forum" for those who wish to vote on an ancient poll to bump it up to the top.

    I think the site is in pretty good shape otherwise. I don't find it too difficult to just bypass threads that i know i am not going to be interested in reading.

  7. #7
    This is bat country... Array The_Wedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    In between bikes
    More people = more problems

  8. #8
    Administrator Array adamantium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    I wish.
    I'll comment on the harassment thing, as that is truely what has bothered me this past week. I've received a few complaints now, of members being harassed on the site by other members, from some comment they made in the forums, then being taken to PM's. This isn't a single occurance and it really is very disheartening.

    I wear BCSB on my sleeve. I considered selling it a year ago because I was tired of the garbage. I had the knowledge I needed, I had people to go riding with - what did I care really. Well as it turns out, I don't think I could ever get rid of it - it's just an awesome thing and a pain in the ass. Two ways to go really with a webforum like this; go private and start picking people off that just don't belong - where Dafnip has a valid point of it being abit 'cliquey', or continue on the way it is and enforce the 'this thread is competetly retarded and it's closed' rule.

    I don't know - just thought I'd get some feedback. I know the site has a good rep and bad rep depending who you talk to. I also know a lot of people have made some really great friends and riding partners as well as some more intimate relationships - what more could a guy ask for. I just want to know if everyones happy with the direction, etc.. you'll notice I said 'we' a lot in my first post (Which I've now re-read). I say 'we' because I mean the entire site - what should 'we' do. Long ago I realized I can't make everyone happy, and as long as 90% is happy it's all good -- I don't let the rest bother me -- this is my annual 'are we at 90% post'.

    I see people come and go all the time. I think people get different things out of BCSB. Some people even get into biking because of all the exciting talk on the forums. And one look through the Bike Tech and Mods.. wow, some seriously great discussions in there with a lot of useful information. I think some people just get all the information they need, and can't afford to devote an hour or more of their day to the site anymore - I've seriously had at least 20 people in the last year have me suspend their accounts to get them off the site (Actually, they all asked me to delete them, but having actually KNOWN these people in person, I put them on hold.. and they all come back eventually. ).

    I love this site. I hate this site, and everything in between.

    Now where is the 'Buy Adam an Aprilia fund?'
    BCSB- Administrator

  9. #9
    Wanna come over for lunch Array ehtaylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Fort Mac
    2001 GSXR 1000
    Hi Adam,
    First off the site is still great.
    To be honest some of the drama can be damm entertaining , let people police themselves.
    I don't agree with banning or closing any threads.
    I totally agree with a POLL forum that will not show up on a new post search.
    People that post whore seem to get bored after awhile so let them.
    Bring it on Fatboy

  10. #10
    builder of bikes Array cosworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    The Island
    An inherent flaw in the system will ensure it's survival. The forum can not be perfect. It can be managed, massaged and progressed. But it will have defects. Not unlike the "matrix" in that a perfect system self destructs. Forums must follow chaos theory. Everything does.

    BCSB is the ultimate reality show. Some personalities and some opinions spike and peak. It all flows. There will be good weeks and bad weeks.

    I am at the center of some of the drama here. I know why. I'm ok with it. I won't change me. People ask for an opinion or insight and don't like the answer sometimes. Then don't ask damnit.

    But the only thing I can offer in "advice" is to make sure that when you delete a post make sure it has a valid reason for being deleted and not based on personal issues. When the name calling or the discussion gets heated then yeah it's red alert time. Things can get out of hand.

    Everything in the universe has an opposite. Up/down, light/dark, good/evil. You must be able to express both sides. When a topic is posted and only positive comments are allowed then the system breaks down. If someone/something can't take civil critcism then they should not be on the internet.

    It's the internet people. Don't forget you have a life away from the keyboard...

  11. #11
    The Comedy is in the Back Array Saturnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    bro, do you even ride in a straight line? #1 asshole
    i know your rant is devote to me and few others.. ha ha..and hey thats great....i feel all tingly inside.....kinda like the first time i visited the funny farm....and as ivy points will never make everyone happy...hell even if i'm gone.....ppl will still be miserabe and lookin' for more their RL shit aint enough..know what i'm sayin'......the site is fine....the ppl are learnin' to adapt to eachother......
    ...and me....well.....i'm raising funds for a trip to vietnam.....cough cough....

    like cos said "It's the internet people. Don't forget you have a life away from the keyboard..."

    but some ppl cant fuckin' see the diff between the internet and their RL.....and to those i salute.....
    Throttle Trauma 3 - Stunt riding documentary - digital download - visit
    The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.

  12. #12
    Doesn't register Array Mutate Now!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    "Focus on the journey, not the destination. Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it.”
    It runs...
    Nearing my first anniversary on this site. The ebb and flow of visitors and members are what I perceive to be a natural progression of any sort of 'community gathering place'.

    When it first starts out, there is a core group of committed members who saw this venue as a great place to peform one or two specific functions (i.e. in the case of BCSB, I believed it was to create a 'community' of local riders and have a place to share ideas and organize rides).

    As knowledge and popularity of any locale grows, it attracts a larger audience and a broader demographic. Soon you have attendees who don't even have a direct relation to the core concept of site 'commandeering' it for their own purposes, be it to beat their own chest, socialize, learn how to get a class 6, case bikes, sell things, or other.

    This perceived dilution of the original concept will eventually begin to wear on the 'original' members who saw the site as what it originally intended to be, and they slowly drift away. Newer visitors and members, not realizing it was any different, will see this as a valuable resource to find a community of local riders and share ideas and organize rides... And the cycle continues.

    I used to check this site religiously when I first found out about it May 2003. My riding had been on hiaitus for almost all of 2002 and I was itching to find some people to ride with. I've met some wonderful fellow riders through this site, and put about 6500 km on my little beater last season. When fall came around and my focus turned to other things, I visited this site less and less. During the 'off' season, the majority of posts were non-bike related and topics broadened to whatever blip-vert(tm) (anyone remember Max Headroom?) seemed to be current on the world wide web. It went from a purpose specific forum to ''.

    With this generification of the threads, I found it increasingly difficult to find things pertinent to what I originally signed up for: keep in touch with the community and meet fellow riders. Checking 'new posts' yields banter and blathering that really is irrelevant to the purpose of what I envisioned the site to be.

    I still check in to keep in touch with some of the wonderful people I've met, but to actively participate and try to find threads that I find worthwhile contributing to takes up way too much time compared to what it used to take. Hence, my active participation wanes...

    I tend now to only scan specific forums (goin for a ride? and sportbike chat) and restrict my time on the board to that, unless I am specifically planning on killing time. Filters are difficult to use to search for relevant threads because the english language is so slippery, and no one uses it in quite the same way. Similar to spam e-mail programs, if you set the criteria too specific, you will miss out on a lot of possibly relevant and pertinent stuff, yet if you are too liberal with your filter, you are no better off than before you used it.

    Anyways, aside from that little observation, I have nothing to add or suggest aside from my appreciation for the time you take, Adam, to provide this site for the benefit of all of us!


    This post is simply the opinion of the poster and is not to be construed as instructions or advice. Your mileage may vary.
    I rode Deal's Gap / The Dragon in September 2007 and I visited Yellowstone in August 2010. Where have you been?

  13. #13
    I'm a motorcyclaholic Array Mohawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Mission, BC - ValleyBoyz
    Street: 03-GSX-R1000, Track: 02-GSX-R600, Ditch?
    Great job Adam. The site is great and serves it's purpose.

    I agree with you that some form of sanctionning must be in place to ensure it does not turn into mayhem.

    The key, as usual, is where to draw the line. I would suggest that you take something from the most recent Aaron Yates scenario. Here the AMA and Suzuki have both sanctionned Aaron Yates and, in the spirit of racing, I beleive he should not have because, racing is racing and adrenaline will start to pump. The yard stick that I beleive should have been used is "did he cause any pain?", "was there any danger?" or was this just venting under extreme circumstance?

    Iow, finding the line will be the hardest part in the sanctionning process. I agree with it but I feel it should be drawn quite a ways out.

    In regards to useless posts, I use the same approach as the TV, I don't look at them. However, if they start to fill the site, then, can them under the guise of meaningless banter and pm the authors noting penalty points as you would under normal sanctionning occurances.

    Again, thank you for your hard work and devotion in regards to making this site possible for all of us!


  14. #14
    Moderator Array spinko's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    tiz Red.
    I've said it once, I'll say it again: "if it ain't broken, don't fix it".

    Like it has been mentioned before, "you can't please everyone". I think you have the rules for this forum perfect, and that's why it kicks the ever loving shit out of all the other forums I have been on. The moderation level is perfect.

    It's your site, and you are going to change/run it like you want. I just hope it stays strong. THis site has provent to be an invaluable resource for many. I've met so many great people and riden some great roads thanks to this site.
    BCSB- Moderator

  15. #15
    Wanderer of the Wastes Array DNAspark99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    השטן שב
    adam, sometimes i think you SHOULD step away from whatever posistion you hold where you believe you can 'control' the jist/flow/members/ideas of the site.
    you often talk of community; yet you yourself draw lines right through it.
    ideally, you'd probably have a select portion of users on this site, ignoring or removing those who do not conform to the popular conceptions of the 'acceptable attitudes of responsible riders'... if i had only known so many 'undesirable types' were attracted to these fanicful death machines I may have reconsidered the whole process of necessitation..... maybe you need a seperate domain, '', for all the whiners who don't like a lil CHAOS berries mixed in with their LIFE cereal.

    "Your views do not conform to our own. Authorities, take out his eyes!"
    "I dread beyond all else the growth of the petty tyranny of restrictive legislation, the transference of disciplinary authority from the judiciary to the constabulary, the abandonment of every constitutional safeguard of individual liberty."

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