A sad story from another forum.
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Thread: A sad story from another forum.

  1. #1
    Born to sweep. Array r1100s's Avatar
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    Oct 2003
    08 KLR

    A sad story from another forum.

    This is NOT a local story, it was posted on another forum I frequent. I think there are some good lessons in it, especially given the # of riders who appear to hook up via. BCSB for rides. It doesn't hurt to be reminded occasionally. I think it's appropriate to post this, lemme know if not.


    Yesterday morning, I met three riders at a coffee shop in Cave Creek. They invited me to ride with them through 89a and 89 which goes through Jerome, Prescott, Yarnell Hill, and Wickenburg. It was a spirited ride... an older gentleman Jeff who had invited me was good competition and we took turns chasing each other through the corners. The other two riders were novice riders... one of them breaking in his first street bike (NAME DELETED). I noticed several errors he made and pointed them out to him. I told him to slow down on his corner approaches and feather the front brake instead of just grabbing a bunch of it. I made it known he shouldn't try to keep up with me at the expense of riding faster than his comfort level.

    The last thing he said to me was... "I'd better wait on buying that R1." I replied that he should learn how to ride this bike first.

    5 minutes later and a few miles down the road on the approach to Yarnell hill, I saw him overtake the guy behind me and close the distance between him and I. I set up for the first curve right before the road splits and hit it at more than a modest speed. As I was buzzinig through the corner I saw a red ferrari testarossa going the opposite direction. I thought to myself nice car, stood it up, looked in the rearview mirror, and realized NAME DELETED was no longer with me. I continued my ride as it was a one way road after the split and came back up after waiting at the bottom for awhile. There he was, next to what used to be a motorcycle, covered by a sheet laying on the double yellow. His friend walked up to me and said simply "He's dead." He had hit the driver's side of the red ferrari going at what I estimate to be 80 mph.

    The ride home was the longest ride I've ever ridden. I don't remember much of it... only that I wished I had declined the offer that morning.

    Moving forward, I will be much more careful of who I let ride with me, what kind of advice I provide to novice riders, and how I ride in general. We are in a sport/hobby with inherent risks and when you ride with friends, you accept a great deal of emotional liability.

    I wish he had heeded my advice rather than try to keep up with me. My point was poorly communicated or maybe he misinterpreted what i was trying to say... I'll never know.

    Be careful out there.
    Transportation is serious business.

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  3. #2
    And shepherds we shall be Array miraclejoe's Avatar
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    Jun 2003
    Gixxer V2.1
    Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    Quote Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    Fascist oppressor.

  4. #3
    Deer magnet Array Prez's Avatar
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    Jun 2002
    sold - borrowing my wife's CBR
    When my wife first started riding, I let her ride up front, so she could dictate a pace she was comfortable with, rather than keeping up with me. This worked fine until a ride to Harrison one day. I stayed behind my wife all the way there, but on the way back, there is a passing lane going up a hill that is nice and twisty, and I didn't want to waste those nice twisties by following my wife. I passed her (safely of course), and the car ahead of her, and flew through that section at a brisk, but not too reckless pace.

    After the twisty section, I slowed down and waited for my wife to catch up. After riding for a minute, she still didn't appear behind me, so I pulled over and waited. After another minute went by, I began to get very worried, and went back looking for her. A few seconds later, with a great sigh of relief, I saw her coming the other way.

    I asked her what happened, and she told me that after I passed her, she tried to keep up with me, and ended up going so wide on the first sharp right-hander, she found herself on the hard shoulder on the other side of the road! . Needless to say my jaw just about hit the ground. If there was a truck coming the other way, she almost certainly would have been killed.

    We had a good long chat about the whole incident before riding on. She said she didn't want to lose me, so I assured her that if I get ahead of her, I will watch out for her in my mirrors, and if I don't see her for more than 1 minute I will pull over and wait. If I still don't see her for another minute, I will turn around and go looking for her, so there is no need to worry about losing me. This has been our rule ever since, and she has always ridden at her own pace since then.

    Now, whenever we ride, if the road get's twisty and she's in front, she will wave me by. That way, I will get to ride at my pace, and she will get to ride at her pace, but we still always arrive at our destination together.
    Last edited by Prez; 04-26-2004 at 03:48 PM.
    Every day I break my previous record of consecutive days still alive.

  5. #4
    I do all my own stunts Array boarder's Avatar
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    Mar 2003
    only 1 bike now, '02 gsxr750
    He did everything he could do, there's nothing to be ashamed of. Chances our the advice may have slowed the kid down and instead of hitting the side, he may have hit head on injurying and possibly killing the driver/passenger of the car. We've all made mistakes when we're learning, those of us that learned from our mistakes live on to ride again. We are the lucky ones, the ones where the mistake didn't cost us our lives.

    For the few that didn't learn from there mistakes you've gone down, or are on the path to crashing. I experienced this last year with the incident involving the two ridiers from the Rhubarb thread, they didn't learn... and ended up crashing, and nearly dying that day. even after the close call, still traveled beyond their abilities, its a stroing lesson that everyone must learn.
    anyone wanna lend me a bike ?

  6. #5
    Member #899 Array Squire's Avatar
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    Aug 2002
    2008 Beemer (touring)
    Thanks for the post R1 100s - we do need that reminder.

    I remember my first BCSB ride... I met everyone at the church and told the organizer that I had very limited experience on a bike and was put in a what I was told was the newbie group. "Okay" I thought, "I'll have no problem riding with this group" and we headed out to Squamish where I could barely keep up to the other "newbie" riders, and had to ride faster than I'd ever ridden before and stupidly I continued at a pace that I was very uncomfortable riding at... even though I knew that I really didn't have to keep up but felt that I should as this was the "newbie" group. Thankfully I made it up to Squamish without anything happening (Katrider held back and paced me at a much slower, more reasonable pace no doubt realizing that I really was a newbie).

    I had a coffee in Squamish and then headed out with another small group of riders and quickly realized that I wouldn't be able to ride at the pace they were riding at so just toddled along by myself back to Vancouver (I was actually passed on the right by a couple of riders who nearly ended up crashing into a motorhome) and it kind of freaked me out.

    On that day I nearly decided not to ever show up for a BCSB ride again. I'm glad that I wasn't so stubborn not to show up again, but what it did teach me is to be patient with anyone who comes out for rides who says they're a "newbie". Yes, for anyone who has ridden with me you will know that I take you seriously when you tell me you're a newbie, and maybe you've never been out on a BSCB ride. I just don't want you guys to have the same, somewhat negative experience I had on my first ride. My personal rule is that everyone leaves on the ride and comes back safely from that ride. If that means I slow down so you get home in one piece, so be it... Cheers!
    Taking It to the Track

    Website: Pitt Meadows Track Days

    WMRC Racer #911 (retired)
    PCMRC Racer #911 (retired)

  7. #6
    Got Hammer? Array gixxstar's Avatar
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    Sep 2002
    The Mighty One
    I would've felt bad too. There's some great riders and some accidents waiting to happen on BCSB group rides, like anywhere else. I never tell people to ride though unless they ask for it. That guy did everything he could. Sad story.

  8. #7
    Moderator Array Harps's Avatar
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    Mar 2002
    A couple of Suzukis
    Yikes, sounds like an experience I had with the infamous "keyboy" last year on a Sunshine Coast ride. He was a new rider, and was trying to keep up with some of us that were going a little bit more quickly...on the way back he had the same thing happen as you described above...but luckily the car coming from the other direction was able to pull a maneuver to avoid hitting him as he ran off the road on the OUTSIDE of the oncoming traffic lane. Unfortunately, this quick maneuver by the car meant that he barely missed hitting ME in the process of trying to avoid keyboy...luckily I had enough in reserve to avoid the collision.

    I fuckin tore that guy a new one when I went to help him pick up his bike...as I'm sure the author of the post above would've done if the rider had lived to see the next meeting spot.
    Maybe Mediocre
    BCSB - I hate you

  9. #8
    Ghost SV Rider Array Dru's Avatar
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    Jul 2003
    2002 SV650S Ghost
    Quote Originally Posted by Squire
    Yes, for anyone who has ridden with me you will know that I take you seriously when you tell me you're a newbie, and maybe you've never been out on a BSCB ride. I just don't want you guys to have the same, somewhat negative experience I had on my first ride. My personal rule is that everyone leaves on the ride and comes back safely from that ride. If that means I slow down so you get home in one piece, so be it... Cheers!

    Very true. Thanks for introducing me to bcsb riding. I'd recommend any newbie to join you for a ride. Even if you can sometimes ride faster than a brand new newbie pace, you always left good advice. Ride at your own pace and meet at the place we decided on before hand.

    On the topic of the story, it is sad. You can only do so much to make other riders learn, but unless they want to listen, there is nothing you can do.

  10. #9
    That is real sad.

  11. #10
    Formerly FURY Array Triplepete's Avatar
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    Feb 2002
    2K9 ZX-6R
    Very sad story, but unfortunately common. I consider myself to be a good rider, but I always prefer to be in the back so I am never holding anyone up as well as not having to worry about riders behind me.

    It's fun to ride in a group but sometimes it seems the riders are too close together leaving little room for error. There was an incident last year where a rider tagged another in front of him taking them both out while approaching a corner on the S2S. If I remember correctly he had to be air lifted off the highway. Can't remember his name though, but he is a member of BCSB.

    Ride safe.
    Your Anguish Sustains Me

  12. #11
    Registered User Array Commuter Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Suzuki Bandit
    Quote Originally Posted by gixxstar
    That guy did everything he could. Sad story.
    No, he didn't. On the group rides with the usual crowd I'm in with,
    there's usually a mix of skillsets.

    Nearly always, if there's greenhorns around, one of the older, more
    experienced riders volunteers to ride sweep. This means the newbies
    don't have to worry about being left behind, the faster riders can
    zoom off, and most importantly, the newbie dosent' feel like a total
    lameass taking it easy, because there's someone who's hugely
    experienced not freaking out at their pace behind them.

    I was lucky enough to have good people like that with me when I
    started group riding, and more often than not, I like to return the

    If any of you more experienced riders ever want to give something
    back, it's definately worth it to do now and then.

    You don't have to worry about tickets, you aren't breathing an RV's
    tailpipe fumes, and even better, get to hang back and make up all
    the time blitzing the corners.

  13. #12
    Administrator Array adamantium's Avatar
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    Feb 2002
    I wish.
    I'm stickying this. This is a great read for new and old riders alike.
    BCSB- Administrator

  14. #13
    builder of bikes Array cosworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    The Island
    I understand your thoughts Commuter Boy. But I say "ride your own ride" many times. I tell people behind me if they can't keep up then don't bother trying. If I'm holding them up then flash to pass. I personally think that I am not "responsible" for the rider behind me regardless of his seat time (wait I'll explain more)

    This is assuming that we are on a meet up ride where anyone can join. Typical BCSB ride where you have no idea who the guy is behind you other than "Hey NAME nice to meet you". My GF is not a seasoned rider and I try to pace her and have fun at the same time. Hard to do. But she knows we'll end up at the same spot. I try to never lose sight of her.

    End of story is that no rider should ever be legally responsible for the rider(s) behind him unless you are the supervisor of a "new" rider. I for one never want to think that I pulled someone into the ditch. They got there on their own. Maybe that's why I prefer to ride in groups of less than 4 and people I know...

    I went on lots of "BCSB" rides in the past years where there were "leaders" etc. of younger or less skilled riders. These are all fine and dandy but as R1Girl had so pointedly demonstrated to her is that the lead rider is the one who is left holding the bag. I don't like that idea.

    Re: the story. Kind of odd that he'd hit a Ferrari but hey weirder things have happened. Embellishment or not it's a sad story where you have to think - What kind of rides do I want to go on?

    For me. I prefer rides where I don't need to look in my mirrors.

  15. #14
    I do all my own stunts Array boarder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    only 1 bike now, '02 gsxr750
    I posted in the rubarb thread after only 4 months riding experience, and still to this day the biggest problem with the bcsb rides is how close some of the riders ride, and not riding in formation. Braking distance is so f*ckin critical. If I wave you by chances are you're following too close, I'm not a slow rider, I'm not holding you up, why are you so close??? Is it cause the N on the back?? The only reason i might have a bad line is because I have to watch how close you are in my mirrors to see if I have to take evasive action if I should need to brake.

    formation in the straights, single file in the corners.. is it really that hard?

    I understand that some of the guys have been riding for years with these partners, but if you don't know me, and I don't know you, I don't wanna be right beside you in a corner, waiting to be surprised.
    anyone wanna lend me a bike ?

  16. #15
    Mr. Sophisticata Array toomuchgsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    05 Gixx 1000
    I have been a member for a year now and still havent been on a BCSB ride. I have a ton of saddle time but I dont like the idea of a tight pack of riders on each others asses going 170-180kph. It doesent matter how much exp you have if your behind someone and they get spooked and grab a bunch of break in mid turn.

    I like 3 or 4 guys who I know and know their ability.
    Team Troll - Triple T

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