Vanishing Point Technique

1. ## Vanishing Point Technique

Vanishing Point Technique

This method allows you to deal with unknown varying radius corners with a minimal amount of fuss and hassle. A decreasing radius corner will never sneak up on you, since you've been continually adjusting your speed through it.

The beauty of it is that it automatically adjusts for hedges, parked cars, and other vision blockers. If you can't see the curb because a car is there, the VP will slow down, and so will you. It also dictates a different line through some corners. In order to go the fastest SAFELY through the corner you need to stay within your VP. So, the fastest way through the corner then, is to maximise the VP. This often means a different line than a traditional "racing line".

You DO need the skill of braking and accelerating while leaned over though. You need to at LEAST be able to brake as fast as the corner decreases. Practise this on a controlled area before riding to 100% of the VP on unfamiliar roads.

Here's the technique:

Observe where the center of the road appears to meet the right edge of the road (left edge for countries with traffic on the left) A long way away on a long, flat straight road, but a constantly changing point on most curves.
Never ride faster than you can stop in that distance.
Never ride faster than you can see, identify and avoid all obstacles within that area.
That's it.
Examples:

As you approach the corner from the long straight you are on, the Vanishing Point (VP) is essentially at the corner entrance (since you can't see around it), you slow down as you get closer to it, and it doesn't move.

As you get close, you can start to see around the corner, and the VP starts to move away from you. Adjust your speed so you are neither gaining on it, nor losing on it.

As you go through the corner, the VP will be the same distance from you.

As you start to straighten out at the end, the VP will accelerate away from you, allowing you to do the same. The VP picks the point of acceleration, so you don't end up accelerating too early.

As you approach the corner from the long straight you are on, the Vanishing Point (VP) is essentially at the corner entrance, you slow down as you get closer to it, and it doesn't move.

As you get close, you can start to see around the corner, and the VP moves away from you. You adjust your speed accordingly.

As you are in the corner, and the corner widens up, the VP starts to accelerate away from you. In the absence of road hazards, you can accelerate after it.

As you start to straighten out at the end, the VP will further accelerate away from you, allowing you to do the same.

As you approach the corner from the long straight you are on, the Vanishing Point (VP) is essentially at the corner entrance, you slow down as you get closer to it, and it doesn't move.

As you get close, you can start to see around the corner, and the VP moves away from you. You adjust your speed accordingly.

As you are in the corner, and the corner tightens up, the VP starts to decellerate towards from you. You slow down too. Remember, if you can't stop within what you see, you're asking for trouble.

As the corner finishes, and you start to straighten out at the end, the VP will accelerate away from you, allowing you to do the same.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is sometimes argued that available traction is reduced in a turn, and that slowing in a turn may cause a front-wheel slide as the wheel loading changes. Keep in mind that at all times, using this technique, you are travelling slowly enough that you can stop in a space you can see. If your braking technique in turns is such that a skid is likely, you need to reduce speed earlier, to eliminate this hazard. This is not the technique for maintaining the highest speed, this is the technique for maintaining the highest safe speed.
This method will protect you against visible stationary hazards in the road, by assuring that you always have the ability to stop before you reach the hazard. If you choose to ride at a speed so high that you can't stop between where you are and the point at which you can no longer identify a hazard, you have only yourself to blame if you suddenly find yourself trying to ride your bike through a pile of boulders or off a cliff or over an oil spill. Obviously if there is some fine loose gravel visually indistinguishable from the pavement, this approach will give you no additional protection. Oncoming vehicles may intrude into your path at higher speeds than you can respond to, and, of course, risks from hazards overtaking you from behind are not addressed. Be careful out there.

If you want some visual examples for further clarification, you can find a few here: http://cbr.netlore.org/vpexamples.htm

2.

3. That seems entirely to sensible and safe for most.

I've personally always enjoyed ******'s technique (name hidden to protect the guilty, but he rode a 2004 gixxer till it got stolen ) :

1: Ride up to the turn at an absolutely crazy speed.
2: Quickly lean the bike away from the turn (i.e. opposite direction that you want to go).
3: Snap the bike back into the direction you want to go and throw it on the ground as hard as possible.
4: Roll on the throttle to max power to keep the bike from actually hitting the ground.
5: Don't bother adjusting you seating position on the bike. That's only for emergencies. (oh and make sure to wear jeans).
of course he is a much faster rider than me

Bill: I'm just offering people a choice. Hopefully they'll make the right one (especially the newer ridders).
Good post

4. might work well.. but i can see alot of new riders focusing like this and staring right at on coming traffic.

the other problem with this is you are focusing on a point too close to you, which will probably make you less smooth

also, most street riders do not have the skill to adjust and control throttle and braking while in a corner and will probably make a dogs breakfast of the corner.

my 0.02... look FAR through the corner... if you cant see through (for street riders) imagine that it IS very tight...and adjust your speed accordingly...track riders should be using a completly different technique, primarily memory

techniques likes this MAY lead some to some unwanted target fixation

5. A terrific reply I especially liked the "throw the bike" part of that technique

6. It's a very good technique, watching the point either receed from you (crank
it on!)
or approach you rapidly (drop anchor!). I've been using it for years, works
especially well on roads you don't know well. It does take some concentration
though, to notice it and keep an eye on road conditions, traffic, etc.

7. I have read a good write up about the science of cornering. Says alot of what Bill has said. I have tried doing the chasing of the vanishing point and it works very well. And it is not close to you at all. You are looking through the corner to see the vanishing point. I have the article scanned into my computer so I can email it if you like, or try to post it on here but I do not know how.

8. Originally Posted by waypastfast
........ Says alot of what Bill has said. ..
Just for the record, it was a post I got from another Board, I did not write it.
I am not sure from where I think a hoonda F4i board was the original place I saw it.

9. pin it, brake, throw the bitch down and turn. repeat as necessary.

10. I like this thread, It is refreshingly amusing with no one bitching about anything..

And also, informative (thanks bill) For fun I'll take a look at that VP stuff when I am on the bike again..

11. That's probably the most complicated definition of "never overdrive your headlights" I have ever heard. It's just stating that one should never rely on road that one cannot see. That sounds great, but in reality it's totally impractical.

This system relies on one very basic idea: That the rider has the ability to constantly evaluate how much road he will need to stop, while negotiating a corner. No beginner can do this. It also states that one should be making significant speed adjustments deep in corners. Beginners should refrain from this. If you find yourself going too fast in a corner and the VP is suddenly very close, trying to slow down should not be your kneejerk response.

What about the climbing corner? I suspect this system comes from a country without many mountains. If the corner climbs steeply it may not have a vanishing point! On the slow right-handers one will be able to see the entire corner even while deep into it. If you are playing the VP game to determine speed you are going to get into trouble.

Systems that rely on absolutes (ie never go beyond X) are not safe. They give the impression that safety can be determined with hard numbers. This particular system also creates a benchmark for cornering speed. That's bad mojo.

-Sandworm

12. What I like about the VP method is that it stresses looking ahead, which most newbs(and experienced) don't do enough of...

Varying speed in a corner is a critical skill, that needs to be aquired in the motorcyclists tool box... if you can't do it comfortably, then start learning!

13. I don't totally agree on this method. If anyone has seen that video of a motorcycle smashing in a deer that jumped on the road out of nowhere... You'll know what I mean.

14. Originally Posted by Hy_side
I don't totally agree on this method. If anyone has seen that video of a motorcycle smashing in a deer that jumped on the road out of nowhere... You'll know what I mean.
You ever actually HAD a deer jump out near you while riding? It doesn't matter
how fast or slow you're going, you've got a 50/50 chance the hooved rat'll
smack into you.

I've had them boing sideways at me riding at a walking pace after slowing
down after sighting one. They're pea brains with no survival instinct
around vehicles, they'll go anywhere, in front of you, behind you, into the
weeds, anywhere. And they can damn near clear a two lane road in a single
bound, if you're unlucky and they come out of a ditch or from behind a thicket,
you'll never see them coming.

Mountain lions. Need to introduce more mountain lions to keep their numbers
in check

15. ... and if you think deer are bad, never and I mean NEVER ride when moose are around

16. Originally Posted by jeckyll

... and if you think deer are bad, never and I mean NEVER ride when moose are around
Moose are so big and dumb, they will stand in the middle of the road and not get out of the way of cars.... the funny thing is they can be hit by car, kill all the occupants and still walk away........

#### Posting Permissions

• You may not post new threads
• You may not post replies
• You may not post attachments
• You may not edit your posts
•