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Newbies, get in here!

6K views 73 replies 32 participants last post by  weitaro 
#1 ·
Take a course!

Let me start off by saying I have always been one of those who is not afraid to read an instructional article on how to ____ and I then go out and apply it. I have done this all my life in addition to watching videos and getting some help from friends or what have you. Sure enough my course date a month away and a shiny new bike in my backyard I got the heebie jeebies and jumped on. The parking lot got boring fast and wasn't always available, one more week left I decided to wait it out.

Today was the first 3 hours of theory with a crazy guy :) and I can't wait to feed on more life saving information from a dedicated professional. Prior to this course, I thought I knew what I was doing, boy was I wrong. No amount of 'teaching' from friends could surpass what I learned in a few hours today. What else is there to say, take a course!

Most important lesson learned today? For me it was probably balance. I have ridden a cbr600rr and I sure as hell thought I had some things down pat, only to be awaken by the realization in that classroom that this course probably saved my life.

I learned the proper adjustment of ones clutch and brake levers and was able to nitpick my friend who has been riding for a couple years and help his riding by in turn teaching him. That and one or two pointers later he promised me he would attend a course. Riding school just saved two 'young' lives today. Truth.

Pondering these thoughts above, and a snippet of info that I wish I had hammered into me by reading old threads on BCSB was that 'insurance' on a motorcycle is basically the survival techniques and tactics you will only ever learn in a professional classroom environment. That is the only insurance you have out there on the streets. Your zillion dollar coverage from icbc will not make up for your inability to properly throttle out of a corner. Are you a light switch on and off rider or do you know how to work the dimmers!!! That alone can save your life in a sticky situation!

This is only a smidgen of the information I absorbed today. I could go on for an hour but alas it is late.

This concludes day 1 of classroom theory. I will periodically update as I knew back a few months ago, I would have enjoyed reading this sort of thread and hope some of you do too.

If you have any questions do not hesitate, this is the Official Newbie Q&A forum after all.


mmmh donuts, who wants donuts :devillook
 
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#2 ·
I'm having a case of insomnia too tonight. Know how that feels.
I'm curious what you learned! Brake and clutch adjustment are things that come with preference and riding, I personally like my throttle to have 1 mm of play, and i like my clutch a little loose and my brakes a little tight. I probably wouldn't go criticizing your riding buddies set up just yet.

Also what life saving techniques did you learn so far? Weight balance on corners? On a 600rr you BETTER know that. Bikes like the cbr125 have equal contact patches and inorder to get the best cornering you kinda have to coast through a corner... but a 600rr has a fat rear.

I'm one of those new riders that is convinced that a course isn't for me. Since your a new rider (registered 2003??) taking a course, I'd like to hear what your learning.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Qjet said:
I'm one of those new riders that is convinced that a course isn't for me.
Qjet no offense man, but after reading your stuff for a while now I really think you should consider getting some proper instruction. some of the stuff you post is just, well..:hurryup :surrender good luck
 
#10 ·
I have to agree with Jaybo, you really should take a course Qjet. I'm a new rider and took the Action school in Langley and they REALLY taught me alot. I ended up acing my MST and I just passed my road test yesterday with only a few marks off. They have ~85% pass rate with their students.

Along with the technical aspects of riding, a motorcycle school really teaches you how to stay alive out there. Where to put the bike in certain situations, what to look out for, how to make the manuever, etc... They say it has been proven that taking a course like this is equivalent to having 2 or more years of riding experience.

I myself am addicted to learning and it sounds like you are too. Trust me, you will get your fill with one of these courses. The only bad thing that can happen is that you might waste some time and money (99% sure that won't happen), but the worst is that you might not be prepared for a critical situation on the road. I know my life is worth more than $600.

:thewave
 
#14 ·
I took a course last month and within 1-2 weeks I went from never even sitting on a motorcycle before to being able to safetly manage city and highway traffic. If i hadn't taken a course I don't know if I'd be out of the parking lot by now.

My road test is Oct 2. *fingers crossed*
 
#15 ·
ok ok folks i know you mean well. But the choice I've made isn't "I'll figure the bike out over time" it's "I'll do the learning on my own"
They SOUND similar but they really arn't

Let me explain it like this:
A school is a simple public institution, teachers come in and design a lesson plan on how they will explain a subject to their students. They do this based on the materials they hand out (i said SCHOOL not UNIVERSITY). The material is publicly available, the information exists, but students very commonly need a guide. However, occasionally someone steps out and says "I don't like!" The response is first "Too bad" and then second "Well in that case you can learn the material on your own" And there are systems in place to let that happen.

the material that these people cover is publicly available, they are there to take that initiative element out and help you learn. There are pro's and con's to my choices, and believe me i see them. I won't get the finite information about handling that public information doesn't provide, the possibility of developing bad habits, no objective eye to gauge my progress, and my ability to ask questions is limited. These are the very same limitations that a student of something like math would have to face if he was to learn the subject on his own.

now this isn't saying that i haven't acknowledged what you have said, the statement of someone who's riding for 15 years carries alot of weight. but my opinions are strong, and require more to shake them.

I try to remain as objective as possible about my capabilities, but at the same time I think ive gone through some rough stuff so far. I've had my front tire push out from under me during a corner, I've had my rear tire spin out on manure, I've had cars, trucks try to flatten me so far to, unexpected sprays of gravel, I've had way more rain days then i would like so far and i live in a semi arid city! and i think this is 5 group rides so far in my month of riding. Tagged on 3000 KM and although this may seem very unimpressive to some of you, I've handled it all using the applications of what i've learned through my own studies, not through instruction, and not by haphazardly learning on my own. Thats my honest position on this.
I'm sorry if im being an ass
or if i'm just simply failing to "get" it.
but thats my position.
Sorry my post ended up jacking your thread Jotti

So what else have you learned?
 
G
#16 ·
I didnt take a course and within 1-2 minutes I went from never even sitting on a motorcycle before to being able to safetly manage city and highway traffic. If i had taken a course I don't know if I'd be out of the parking lot by now. PRobably sitting in some stupid classroom listening to some boring stuff.

but then again, im not you and you should never do something just because someone else did.

take the course gomer.
 
#18 ·
I teach school actually (not university).

School is about learning safely and learning in the best way pedagogically. Meaning that you learn the correct way the first time without shortcuts and without learning bad habits. This is why a lot of long timers will recommend a course to start.

Unfortunately, by experiencing some of the things you've described without previously having an idea that they can exist is learning in a haphazard manner. One of the things a good course will teach you is how to recognize hazards before they become a problem.

You are entitled to your opinion but please be careful when you give advice to others as your information may get others in trouble.
 
#21 ·
I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but from what I've heard, more than half of motorcycle accidents involve untrained riders. So by taking a course (which usually only takes about a week) you reduce your chances of being involved in a collision by more than half.

Seems like a pretty good reason to take a course to me.
 
#22 ·
Taking the proper training means I am less likely to get into an accident. If all those people that think the course is useless and they can learn it themselves. My odds of not crashing increase. :flashy

Taking the motorcycle training course was $650 well spent. Taking my PADI scuba divers course was $250 well spent. These courses are meant for you to survive. If the $650 means one less crash then thats money WELL spent. It's a crapshoot when you fall off a bike. You could end up with a small scrape or end up in the morgue. I want to minimize these chances. Why wouldn't you?
 
#23 · (Edited)
Flowrider said:
You are entitled to your opinion but please be careful when you give advice to others as your information may get others in trouble.
Flow has it right. Take the course or don't. But get to know what you're posting about. You seem like a smart kid, but man, sometimes you just come up with some weird stuff that just isn't right....like that cbr125 statement earlier... I mean what is up with that? Try to remember that this is the newb section and people can take that stuff as truth.
 
#27 ·
I didnt take a course and within 1-2 minutes I went from never even sitting on a motorcycle before to being able to safetly manage city and highway traffic.
lol noice.

Unfortunately, by experiencing some of the things you've described without previously having an idea that they can exist is learning in a haphazard manner. One of the things a good course will teach you is how to recognize hazards before they become a problem.
Wow I'd think I was a crazy bastard too if i saw someone riding on the road unprepared for hazards like the ones i described. Luckily I was, i just didn't explicitly mention it, i did say "I've handled it all using the applications of what i've learned through my own studies" I was hopping that implied i prepared myself for them. Ohwell!

And teetee no i don't believe you coast through corners. I believe the CB125 has to put maintenance throttle to balance the weight on the wheels, and the only roll on required would be because of the gear ratio difference of the tires as the rider leaned in to keep the bike from transferring weight forward.

and i would LOVE to take an art course, very likely i will take one when the snow goes away next season after I've given myself a refresher. You're absolutely right other then a straight line I've got no clue as to the limits of my bike, so some track time and an art course would be a quantum leap! No doubt about it!
 
#35 ·
...And teetee no i don't believe you coast through corners. I believe the CB125 has to put maintenance throttle to balance the weight on the wheels, and the only roll on required would be because of the gear ratio difference of the tires as the rider leaned in to keep the bike from transferring weight forward......
It sounds like you're still trying to isolate the braking from the turning way too much.

Let me describe how I run into a turn on the track to show you just how much you can load one end or the other.

Full braking while still upright. Then as I turn in I hold full braking until I'm leaned about 10 degrees. Then it's a progressive easing off as I lean in more until the last of the brake is feathered off as I hit full lean right at the apex. The key here is that I still have a high degree of brakng all through the lean in. I'm still braking quite hard while leaned at 30 degrees. You can do this because the tires are so darn good these days and the weight transfer of the braking has also pushed the tire hard into the pavement so you get some "free" traction on the front at the expense of the rear's traction.

From there I hold the lean as I start to smoothly roll on power and then I start to lift up the bike while adding power. If it looks like I'm going to run wide I stop adding power and hold the lean angle until I've turned a little more than continue adding power and lifting the bike up.

The only time both tires are seeing the same load is right at the apex. On the braking coming in it's mostly on the front tire and during the exit there's a significant shift to the rear. On the motard I've even gotten carried away and caught myself doing a wheelie while still leaned during the exit.

Oh, and all this same stuff works on my XR100 mini racer with its pretty much same size contact patches too.

Plan on the West Coast school early next Spring. It sounds like it'll really help you a lot. And once you have your eyes opened up come on down for the mini racing. It'll reinforce the lessons and generally provide you many a giggle.
 
#29 ·
I believe the CB125 has to put maintenance throttle to balance the weight on the wheels, and the only roll on required would be because of the gear ratio difference of the tires as the rider leaned in to keep the bike from transferring weight forward.
anybody?
 
G
#32 ·
hes a genius, pure genius.... i think he may have stumbled upon the "cold fusion" of motorcyle handling!

of course it will take us many years to fully interpret and understand the depth of what hes saying but i think this will really change the way we look at modern motorcycle design.
 
#38 ·
A couple weeks ago I went down to Pacific Raceways for my first two track days. I learned more from the experience and the instructors then I'd ever imagined I could.

Things like really and I mean really looking through a corner, getting on the gas earlier and earlier in a corner to get that weight shifted to the rear tire, the amazing amount of breaking power your front tire can take, etc etc.

I never took one of the "how to learn to ride a motorcycle courses" and don't think it's hurt me. However, having said that I most certainly do want to get involved in some sort of track training like the ART course.
 
#40 ·
Like you I was a sceptic when I first heard this from non other than Steve Dick who was one of our instructors. But I gave it a try and found that it works.

To use this technique on a regular basis in a heavy way on the street isn't really something I would suggest but to use it mildly and know that it works could save your's or someone elses bacon some day.

Imagine suddenly finding yourself in the beginning of a turn too hot and too far in. Knowing that you can at least START the turn and ease into it while still braking quite heavily versus braking too deeply into the turn while staying upright could easily be the difference between a wake up call and a trip to the hospital.

Bring that 125 down to Tradex for the Pacific events next year and we'll show you the way.
 
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