View Full Version : "Street Racing" vs. just speeding



Harps
03-29-2002, 09:44 PM
Okay so I'm guessing tha tmost of you have probably heard about that new program that the RCMP and the provincial government have put together which gives Police Officers the right to suspend a driver's licence, on the spot, if they think they have been involved in street racing. This is all due to the number of recent street-racing related eaths there have been in the past few weeks.

My question is, where do you guys think that we fit into this? If we're out riding with just one or two friends, and we're going fast (as we sometimes tend to do) then do you think the cop would think that we were racing each other? Or do you think they would understand that motorcyclists just like to ride in groups, and that just because we were all going fast, we weren't neccesarily racing. Because really, when you're riding in a group, you do sometimes go REALLY fast...but you usually keep it very organized, with a leader and everyone falling in behind that person...not too much passing, and certainly no aggressive passing.

So my question is, what do you guys think a cop would do if he were to pull over three of us that were going 160km/h in a 100km/h zone on the highway?

Miteorite
03-29-2002, 09:52 PM
that'd be shitty..
what happened to innocent until proven guilty?
if im suspended on the spot that doesn't even give me the chance to appeal..

if a bunch of us is going really fast they'll probably give us a ticket..
most cops i came in contact with are pretty nice people..

-d

bugs
03-29-2002, 09:56 PM
I would guess that if we can convince them we were not racing, they might be cool about it and know we were not, otherwise if we know we were not and they try to remove our liscences then I guess the next logical place is in court. Its unfortunate that many of us have to suffer because of the stupidity of others, and I guess the authorities are right for nailing down on the culprids, but hopefully they don't look at us as being them.

CG
03-29-2002, 10:06 PM
This has already happened to some people, and they are fighting it already in court.... basically some guy got pulled over for speeding, the cop claimed he was racing, but there was no other car around to race.... it'll be interesting to see what happens.

bugs
03-29-2002, 10:24 PM
Lucky for us we are organised riders, so we have a chance to see the cops (sometimes) and I don't think we allow our selves to be stupid enough to "race"

CG
03-29-2002, 10:30 PM
well, at least we aren't the ones getting targetted. If I drove a rice mobile, I would be fearing my life if I had to drive through richmond these days....

hell, even yesterday, 4 of us on the ride R6rider organized, got pulled over by bicycle cops in the richmond centre parkade, and asked us for licence and registration.... I was surprised they didn't test the pipes on Jim's TLR.... :eek

thr1
03-29-2002, 11:17 PM
you guys got bothered by bike cops in a mall parking lot? that's just f**king ridiculous

Sewman
03-30-2002, 12:39 AM
I was reading an article in the local paper about a West Van 19 yrold that got his license suspended for two years.

He was presumably doing a little top speed run on the upperlevels highway. The cop sits on top of the bridge around the Cypress exit and if he sees someone coming at speed he'll boot it down the onramp to get you from behind. Anyways, this kid was clocked at 159km/h and his license is toast.

My stomach got butterflies after as I read the story because the same thing happened to me when I was 18 one bored 3am weekday. Same spot, probly the same f*ck*n cop.

Except I was going 180 in my 89 civic. (Yeah, it takes awhile but it'll get there!) So I couldn't afford to lose my momentum, cuz a hill was on the horizon and my high output 1.5L with 14 inch wheels were going to lose a couple nuts. So I keep booking it around a corner and lose sight of his headlights. Stand on the brakes and go from 180 to 80 in seconds thanx to my amazing stock rear drum brakes. The dude had not yet captured my speed on his radar so he crept up to me, ran my place and just sped off in defeat.

No ticket...

Everyone has to test the limits at least once to know what it's like and I feel bad for the young man cuz that could have easily been me. I'm lucky my curiosity didn't land me a 400 bone ticket. I now drive like a granny. Maybe tha's because my poor 4....maybe 3 cylinder can't take it anymore.

:rider :rider :rider man...this smily is so cool:rider

blazinr6
03-30-2002, 01:14 AM
first year i was riding me and some friends all got pulled over for speeding at the south end of the cambie bridge...long story short, they took our licenses on the spot for "racing" but it didnt hold up in court because they understood how because everyone has to be on a separate bike it isnt necessarily racing...they said if we had been in separate cars though - it would have been...
i dont think we have anything to worry about for that reason

CG
03-30-2002, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by Sewman
I was reading an article in the local paper about a West Van 19 yrold that got his license suspended for two years.

He was presumably doing a little top speed run on the upperlevels highway. The cop sits on top of the bridge around the Cypress exit and if he sees someone coming at speed he'll boot it down the onramp to get you from behind. Anyways, this kid was clocked at 159km/h and his license is toast.

My stomach got butterflies after as I read the story because the same thing happened to me when I was 18 one bored 3am weekday. Same spot, probly the same f*ck*n cop.


whoa man :eek makes me wonder what would happen if I got clocked on radar on thursday headin out to meet R6rider in richmond on highway 99.... Lets just say I had my speedo indicating well over 200 day :D but again, I only do that type of stuff when no cars are around, and of course, no places for a copper to hide and get me :D Though I heard they use aircraft to clock you on highway 99, hence the reasons for those white painted lines you see every now and then on that stretch out to white rock.... so the moral of my post here, when speeding on highway 99, check the sky above you for any flying pigs :)

Ryan R
03-30-2002, 02:05 AM
Though I heard they use aircraft to clock you on highway 99

Your kidding right :eek

CBR600F2
03-30-2002, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by Canadian_Gixxer


so the moral of my post here, when speeding on highway 99, check the sky above you for any flying pigs :)

yeah man.... r u serious...

if u r... holy f*ck! :eek :confused

CG
03-30-2002, 08:46 AM
what i've been told is, they have someone following from the sky (low flying plane or something, that probably take-offs and lands at boundry bay airport is my guess), they can calculate how fast you are going by how long it takes for you to reach markers they have down along the highway, then they will radio ahead the coppers in front and tell them to wave you down, and bang, write you up a ticket....

I have yet to see this happen, but this is what i've been told.... haven't you guys ever noticed the white marker lines on highway 99?? and plus, there are no places for a cop to hide on that highway (no trees or sneaky overpass or nuttin), so it must be the only way they can get ya.... or of course there is always the sneaky undercover vehicle with the N on the back :)

it's amazing how fast people drive on that highway, I believe the posted limit is 80-100? average speed everybody is doing is like 120+

scooter6r
03-30-2002, 08:51 AM
they have them on the new highway over here on the island that is exactly what they are for.

rusty360
03-30-2002, 10:48 AM
Well if we ever got nailed for 'racing' it would be good to know that everyone would show up in court to support one another and convince them that speeding is all it was. When we did a fast run last weekend not one person was passing another, we were all organized in a staggered formation and I think that is evidence enough.

Harps
03-30-2002, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Sewman

:rider :rider :rider man...this smily is so cool:rider

It's just too bad it doesn't come in green. :D

Harps
03-30-2002, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by blazinr6
first year i was riding me and some friends all got pulled over for speeding at the south end of the cambie bridge...long story short, they took our licenses on the spot for "racing" but it didnt hold up in court because they understood how because everyone has to be on a separate bike it isnt necessarily racing...they said if we had been in separate cars though - it would have been...
i dont think we have anything to worry about for that reason

Okay, that gives me some hope. I have to tell you though, I strongly disagree the way that the police are going about doing this. RCMP officers should NOT be allowed to suspend someone's licence for more than 24hrs if they catch them speeding. It's curbside justice at it's worst...

Just to respond to what someone said earlier...most cops I have been pulled over by have not been very cool. I probably get pulled over once a month or so during riding season. I'm doing absolutely nothing wrong, but they feel they have to pull me over just to ask if I havea valid class 6 or to see my insurance, or to make sure I own the bike. I've only once been issued a ticket while riding (for an illegal right turn...stupid ticket) but every other time it's just some stupid cop trying to flex his or her muscle. When I get pulled over in my car (not often) I never get the same attitude from them.

R1 GIRL
03-30-2002, 09:30 PM
Are YOU telling me that cops ride around in a ghost car/van/truck with a big green N on the back?

That's not good... I always try to pass those guys EXTRA fast, just to make 'em nervous. Tee hee!! Yeah, yeah... I never said I was nice... those "N" people always drive sooooo slow. :laughing

:rider

CG
03-30-2002, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by R1 GIRL
Are YOU telling me that cops ride around in a ghost car/van/truck with a big green N on the back?

That's not good... I always try to pass those guys EXTRA fast, just to make 'em nervous. Tee hee!! Yeah, yeah... I never said I was nice... those "N" people always drive sooooo slow. :laughing

:rider

yeah, i've heard from several people of ghost cars/vans/trucks that had N's on them.... thats very sneaky.... I remember hearing once that somebody was trying to pass a ghost van and the van sped up to not let him pass.... before I go off and do anything stupid, I always scan around looking for coppers.... then even when I'm in the middle of doing something stupid, I still scan around for them....

I'll tell ya what though.... the day the motorcycle cops get busa's, 12R's or CBRXX's, then i'll be scared.... but for now, i'm not :)

James
04-01-2002, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by R1 GIRL
Are YOU telling me that cops ride around in a ghost car/van/truck with a big green N on the back?

That's not good... I always try to pass those guys EXTRA fast, just to make 'em nervous. Tee hee!! Yeah, yeah... I never said I was nice... those "N" people always drive sooooo slow. :laughing

:rider

That's because if you have an N, you get more then 4 points you lose your licsence, and you can get points for stupid things like not having the sign on, and cops are extra nasty assholes if you have an N or L.

kirk
04-28-2002, 10:09 PM
Yep, I've seen all sorts of police cruisers with L and N signs on em. They also like the JR-FM and Z stickers too.

A buddy of mine got nailed by a cop sporting a JR-FM bumper sticker on Nordel Way. They put the stickers on a magnetic backing so they can make their vehicle look as lame as they want. :alien

Haven't heard of anyone getting caught via air patrol locally, but I wouldn't rule it out. I got caught in an air patrol speed trap on the I-5 in my truck a couple years ago... They must have pulled over 10 vehicles along with me. Wish it was that easy for me to make money!

I too am leery about getting nailed for "racing" vs simply just driving fast. Just might have to chop off that lead foot and twitchy wrist of mine! :eek

gsxrfish
04-29-2002, 12:42 PM
who wants to be a cop then ride ??????



:)

doug
04-29-2002, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Canadian_Gixxer
I remember hearing once that somebody was trying to pass a ghost van and the van sped up to not let him pass....

thats illegal on its own right there. speeding up to stop someone from passing you is a big no no. if that instance was true he could have the cop charged. i would have done it and not bargained out of my ticket. a cop with a traffic record is FAR worse than me with a traffic record.

DNAspark99
04-29-2002, 03:56 PM
A friend of mine said he witnessed something very interesting last year:

basically he was watching some good ol' illegal drag racing, and after a bunch of runs, the cops suddenly show up and start busting all involved..
turns out they had some undercover fags...errr, I mean 'officers', in one of the drag cars, ala "Fast and the Furious" style, who were there to 'imbed themselves in the underground drag racing lifestyle' and discover the major players involved in organizing them.

Keep a serious heads up for anything strange this year....something tells me it's gonna be a long summer!

doug
04-29-2002, 03:58 PM
smartest thing you can do is not go out to any organized street racing. take it to the track, despite mission being so far away.

Triplepete
04-29-2002, 07:45 PM
Damn, it's good to see our tax dollars going to air enforcement. I wonder if they add the cost of airplane fuel to your speeding ticket?

Lar
04-29-2002, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Canadian_Gixxer
what i've been told is, they have someone following from the sky (low flying plane or something, that probably take-offs and lands at boundry bay airport is my guess), they can calculate how fast you are going by how long it takes for you to reach markers they have down along the highway, then they will radio ahead the coppers in front and tell them to wave you down, and bang, write you up a ticket....

I have yet to see this happen, but this is what i've been told.... haven't you guys ever noticed the white marker lines on highway 99?? and plus, there are no places for a cop to hide on that highway (no trees or sneaky overpass or nuttin), so it must be the only way they can get ya.... or of course there is always the sneaky undercover vehicle with the N on the back :)

it's amazing how fast people drive on that highway, I believe the posted limit is 80-100? average speed everybody is doing is like 120+



hah, ive been nailed by those stupid planes before, once between quesnel and williams lake and once just south of cache creek, i thought the guy was shitting me until he pointed up and showed me the plane. they were pulling people over like crazy.

they talk with radios, the guy in the plane just tells em which cars to pull over when they get close.

Dirtybill
04-29-2002, 10:05 PM
If you think you're being tracked by an aircraft, either pull over and then start up again or if there's no one behind you, brake hard to almost a stop and then go and do the speed limit for a while.

They track you by how much time it takes you to get from each white marker on the road to the next and then do a quick calculation....time and distance to get your speed. So if your time is erratic, they can't do the calculation.

I don't THINK (could be wrong) they're using aircraft on 99 to White Rock. We lived there for 5 years and I rode my bikes at a fairly high speed on the way home from work and never got nailed. The aircraft you see in that area are flying students and some hobby fliers. On some days you'll also see a helicopter. The chopper is flown by a biker, he instructs students.

Almost got nailed on my favourite highway by aircraft once. The Squamish (sea to sky as everyone calls it now) highway.

I could be wrong but I don't think it's cost effective to run the aircraft much anymore.

stickman
04-29-2002, 11:55 PM
I've also gotten busted by those damn planes! It happened between Abby and Chilliwack and this was about 5 years ago!I'm so paranoid going along that strip cause there are always planes flying in line with the highway! Probably because they're landing at Abby airport ! They always seem to repaint those lines every year though!! Anyways it's not the planes ya gotta worry about out there ,it's the cruisers!!!They sit at Mt.Lehman road(just west of the over-pass),Whatcom road(under the over-pass,between the lanes),in the median(just east of the reststop),on top of the #3road over-pass(CultasLake exit),just before the Vedder cannal and on top of the Yale road exit(just after the cannal)!!!!!I've travelled that highway to NorthVan many,many,many times and I know where those [email protected] sit!Just look out guys when ya enter "The Valley of Pigs"!!!!LOL!!!

slc
04-30-2002, 12:03 PM
I'd like to see a cop pull me over and try to take my license away. His idea of racing may be two bikes going 120 next to each other in a 90. Living in Canada, I'm all for giving more power to police but I didn't realize the War Measures Act had been enacted since Quebec last got caught kidnapping and murdering people! (I won't even start about the newly hollowed, Ahem, I mean "revised" anti-terrorism bill) The only person taking my license away will be a judge . . . in a court of law. Has our judicial system totally fallen apart? Next thing you know, it will be like in the movie Judge Dredd: "Judge, Jury, Executioner".

Oh well, time to write more letters my MLA and MP. (they love me)

easyrider
05-02-2002, 06:10 PM
I listed an email response below from the Solicitor General along with the original question/suggestion on a better solution to the way that Street Racing is being handled.
I am not very happy about the form letter response and most likely not even reading it, but it does give a person an idea as to the mentality of the government on this issue.
For the record I support the BC Liberals on most of their changes that will hopefully keep BC from going bankrupt, but this response to Street racing is short sited in my opinion.

*********************

Thank you for your e-mail of March 26, 2002, regarding street racing.

Street racing is an illegal activity which has resulted in the deaths of
innocent persons. It is not the role of government or the police to support
such activity.

As you have noted, there are car clubs in the Lower Mainland that offer
competitive road racing at Mission Race Way. The intention of these clubs
is to take drivers who want to race off of public roads and put them in a
controlled environment where safety and car control are emphasized.

My ministry is currently considering more stringent penalties for drivers
caught driving at excessive speed. We are reviewing options to give police
additional enforcement tools to deal with incidents of street racing,
including immediate driving prohibitions and vehicle impoundments.

As an interim measure, the police are now able to contact the Office of the
Superintendent of Motor Vehicles (OSMV) 24-hours a day, seven days a week to
report street racing incidents. In the past, police officers have only been
able to contact the OSMV during regular business hours to request
consideration for driving prohibitions for offences such as excessive speed
violations. This new measure allows a police officer to contact the OSMV at
any time of the day or night to report street racing incidents and the OSMV
will make a decision on a prohibition and the length of the prohibition.
Upon receiving verbal authorization from the OSMV, the police officer can
then serve the driver with a Notice of Prohibition from Driving a Motor
Vehicle.

I appreciate your taking the time to write.

Sincerely yours,


R. T. (Rich) Coleman
Solicitor General
-----Original Message-----
Subject: A Real Solution to the Street Racing Problem


I have been listening to the TV coverage on Street Racing and the new law proposals to reduce the problem. However with the knowledge I have of street racing from speaking to people I doubt that the current tactics will have the effect that is desired.

The bottom line is that many kids/adults desire the excitement and challenge of working on and racing cars/bikes. Personally I think working on cars is a constructive hobby and is much more positive than hanging around in packs at the local corner store or bar etc. I believe the challenge should be containing the racing to an appropriate time and place not trying to stop it. A simple analogy is the problem that people were having with skateboarders, everyone was complaining about skateboarders using parking lots and shopping malls etc. for their sport. You could fine and take boards away all day long and it wouldn't solve the problem, the final solution was to realize it was a reasonable activity but just in the wrong area. Skateboard parks have solved the problems in most municipalities and the issue has essentially gone away.
I would propose doing the exact same thing with Street Racing. Instead of taking away licenses and imposing huge fines, we should solve the problem and create a centralized drag/flyer strip. I realize we already have a drag strip in Mission, however that is much too far for teens to travel and the drop-in times are very sporadic. For this solution to work it must be readily available and central to the larger populations.
- It should be available for drop-ins on a minimum of Friday night, Sat and Sun.
- A minimal fee could easily be charged to help fund the site.
- A relatively straight forward license could be made available to insure that drivers/riders were educated and prepared for racing, this could be accompanied by some training for a fee.
- Fast food could be made available to people to help raise support money.
- spectators could be charged a minimal fee $2 to watch.

From my conversations with people I feel very confident that there would be enough local law enforcement, ambulance attendance, nurses that would be willing to volunteer on a rotating basis to supervise the weekends events to insure a safe environment.
I am sure that ICBC would be willing to offer financial support to get kids off the streets, this works in their best interest for financial reasons as well as ethical.
If the surrounding Municipalities contributed along with Provincial government support I am sure we could acquire the 1/2 - 1 mile narrow strip of land that would be required to setup a drag racing or top speed flyer run. (top speed flyer runs in the UK, USA etc. are typically 1 mile long and have a marked break point at 3/4 of a mile for slowing down. 1 mile is typically not enough to reach top speed but it is distance that is typically used for "flyer" runs to test out the upper speed limits in a limited range. Vehicles are typically setup for one or the other event.

The only opposition besides financial reasons would be noise pollution in nearby areas. Street cars typically have greatly reduced exhaust systems and would not run the same noise levels, but depending on the expansion plans non-street approved cars could migrate to the track. I believe that a location on Annasis Island would be the most logical location for the track for 2 reasons. The first would be that it is central enough to provide easy access to kids/adults that would want to race. Second is that it provides a number of areas that would not impact on residential noise levels.

I have spoken with a handful of local teens about the idea and it has had unanimous support. As long as the goal to provide drop in racing for Fri - Sun and possibly on stat holidays is maintained at a cost effective level I believe it would be a win-win for all parties involved. It would also provide an opportunity for the local police to participate with their vehicles as challenges. There could be a "Challenge the Cops" night. (excuse the "Cops" phrase, but it would go over better to use the words that the kids use).

I realize that this proposal would involve Municipalities, Provincial Government, local Police, Ambulance and Hospitals but I believe it would be a solid pro-active solution to the problem that provides what I believe to be a positive activity for kids.


Please forward this to any and all appropriate individuals that you believe would help make this proposal a reality.



Thank you very much for your time,

**********************

easyrider
05-02-2002, 06:11 PM
Here is the email for the Solicitor General
[email protected]

easyrider
05-02-2002, 06:21 PM
If they are taking licenses away for doing 160kph then I am toast. I do that in 2nd gear on back roads (with no driveways or side streets of course).
The highway with no cars is good for at least 260+kph when I get together with other 12's.
On the way to San Diego we were peaking at 300kph at times on I5 (saddle bags and tail bag are not that aerodynamic :D )
Believe it or not the ZX-12R is quite stable and planted at that speed. A reasonable road and the skies the limit (literally if there is a plane COP).

It is so easy to speed on the 12, 160kph is nothing, and that means my license is history this summer unless I leave it in 1st.

For the record, most traffic cops I have run into have been jerks with attitude. I am very polite and give them no reason to hassle and to date have never had a ticket on my 12 (2 years). I wouldn't want to leave my license in the hands of most traffic cops, that is just asking for it.

I have to admit I am worried about this summer.

Dirtybill
05-02-2002, 06:26 PM
Rich Coleman or any of the other puppets won't listen. It's their typical North American way of looking at motorsports. They don't see it as a sport.

The only suggestion I have is that if you're with some other bikers and get pulled and harassed for streetracing is that hopefully you remained in staggered formation. This formation can hardly be called racing and to back it up, cite some safety manuals, including the motor vehicle one which I believes states that staggered riding is the reccomended formation.

Or.......screw BC and go riding in Washington. More backroads and less cops.

Harps
05-03-2002, 10:42 AM
Very good points easyrider. I whole-heartedly agree. If there were a local venue where people could go to this stuff, it would help in a huge way. Even if there isn't room/money for a 1miile track...an 1/8mile dragstrip would even be abel to do the job, I think.

Whitedragon
05-03-2002, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Canadian_Gixxer


yeah, i've heard from several people of ghost cars/vans/trucks that had N's on them....

Not only that but they are pushing u along to race them.

Last Summer my friends and I were driving over Arthur Lang bridge into Vancouver and this blue Subaru WRX with an N sticker
tried to race us.

When we declined (luckily) he went after some other guy and ended up pulling him over.

SO CHEAP!!!:firemad

gsxrfish
05-03-2002, 11:34 AM
i was riding nice and slow a couple days ago and some supercharged MR2 came up besides me well this guy had a small penis for all the right reasons and i so badly wanted to leave him in his own exhaust but would not do it,


I let him blast off screeching tires and driving fast away and thought how beautiful it would be to have a cop up front somewhere?

Well no cop and no race.

but i would love to take this guy to a track and do pink slips paper work upfront to race him.............:)

freshr1
05-03-2002, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Ryan R


Your kidding right :eek

Nope.. also on #3 (Crow's nest).

Harps
05-03-2002, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Whitedragon


Not only that but they are pushing u along to race them.

Last Summer my friends and I were driving over Arthur Lang bridge into Vancouver and this blue Subaru WRX with an N sticker
tried to race us.

When we declined (luckily) he went after some other guy and ended up pulling him over.

SO CHEAP!!!:firemad

You're not kidding! That's entrapment, and if I ever got a ticket like that I would definately take it to court. Depending on the fine/points, and your disposable income, it may even be worth it to fight it on legal grounds. Maybe get that cop in trouble for pulling that shit.

kirk
05-08-2002, 06:48 PM
:gun Found an interesting news item on canada.com this afternoon.



Wednesday, May 08, 2002
VICTORIA - B.C. drivers who get a traffic ticket can get a discount on the amount of the fine if they pay early under new legislation introduced in Victoria.

People who dispute a ticket will still have to appear in court.

But people who pay within 30 days will get a discount, and those who want to dispute the amount of the fine can do so in writing.

The legislation will also allow police to provide evidence in writing and appear at court by phone or through videoconferencing.

Attorney General Geoff Plant says the changes are expected to reduce costs by $4.7 million a year, mainly from savings on police time.

He says it will also free more police officers to remain on the street.

In another move, the government is strengthening court security by confirming the authority of sheriffs to check court visitors for weapons.

People with weapons or who refuse to undergo checks will be refused entry to court.

http://www.canada.com/components/printstory/printstory.asp?id={02BC8E63-C1D4-4FFF-9680-A3A752C2E9A0}

cosworth
05-08-2002, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Dirtybill
Rich Coleman or any of the other puppets won't listen. It's their typical North American way of looking at motorsports. They don't see it as a sport.

Rich Coleman has a son that is paralyzed from a car accident in Maple Bay on the Island. Speeding/car control was the cause of the crash. Anyone who knows that road out ot Maple Bay will understand...

Frost
05-09-2002, 12:32 PM
I understand the concern for peoples safety but there is a time and place for you to drive aggressively. It is not in downtown Vancouver or in traffic. If your going to drive aggressively BC has a lot of beautiful back roads just asking to be thrashed. If your going to go fast do it there that way your not endangering anyone except yourself. Dont take a passenger if you are going to ride fast..that persons life is in your hands. The tragedys that happened in the last few months are a result of people not knowing where and when to drive agressively. You dont take your friends in your car and race. I love to go fast but I will not do it on the freeway or downtown. I think that you are right that the police are going to go hog wild on this issue and no one is safe. Unfortunately we are the most likely targets. If the goverment would give people in this province a controlled race track that they can find the limits of thier machines I think that there would be less of a problem like this. There will always be stupid people that will do stupid things we cant change that. I will find it hard this year to curb that need for speed.:( :(

DoctorP
05-09-2002, 09:37 PM
I used to live on the island and i was heading to my buddies one night after work. i turned left at a major intersectoin on to a two lane road where the right lane merges into the left rather quickly. i did a little ducking and weavin got up over 120 in a 50 zone. passed three cars the last of which was a ghost car. sucker pulled me over and had me dead to rights as far as i was concerned. had my papers ready when he got there. he went back to his car ran my name and my plate. came back and told me to slow it down in ruch hour in traffic. i thought that was pretty damn cool of him. said thank u and kept my speed down the rest of the way to my buddies. but not all cops are gonna be that way. i think it is just gonna depend on which one pulls u over that will decide whether u were racin or not.

easyrider
05-11-2002, 12:27 PM
Here is a link on the Vancouver Riders of Motorcycles on the latest BC politics with street racing and potentially bikes.
http://vrombc.com/v2_messages_view_list.asp?VBOARD_ID=56&NAME=Politics%20and%20motorcycles&xe8brf1f1rofx%2D5%2F11%2F2002+12%3A12%3A13+PM

I think anyone in BC neecs to get in contact and support BCCOM
************************************************** *
BCCOM Monthly Meeting
For more information contact Shannon at [email protected]
Start Date: Start Time: Start Location:
May 1, Wednesday
7:00:00 PM Justice Insitute, 715 McBride Blvd in New Westminster


This meeting will be an open forum, and riders will have an opportunity to bring up any issues for discussion that they feel are important to the motorcycling community.

Please call (604) 580-0111 or 1-877-580-0111 for info.
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Here are some excerpts from another site that were emailed to me:

caution to ALL British Columbia riders... READ THIS!!
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posted by nexm aka bog from http://vrombc.com



quote:
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I think guys, now there is something to be really concerned about!!! Donít want to loose your Driving License? Be very, very carefulÖ no, Iím not talking about the idiot drivers who didnít see you, but about those honest and righteous traffic officers who server and protect usÖ or pretend to do so. Today, if you get pooled for going more then 30km over posted speeding limit, the chances are you going to loose your license for 2 years right at the spot. And your bike impounded on top of that. Or if you decide to start a little faster at the traffic lights, it could be taken as the racing, and same thing, your license will be gone. The cops have the power now, and itís all left to his discretion!!! Over the years, although Iíve been stopped by a few cops for whom I did have respect, but thatís only a few. Most of them were just acting like total assholes, displaying pretty much every wrong kind of behavior is out there, and no mater if you were nice to them yourself or not. Word dickheads fits for those cops the most. It never failed to amazed me, that thought in my mind: Maaan, this job does not seams to required much IQ. I could point out a few dozen places in Vancouver just from top of my mind, where that police officer would ďserver and protectĒ us much better.

At the last BCCOM meeting a few days ago that was one of the topics. That the cop can take away your class 6 so easy, that is so scary, and there is really not much can be done. And whatís scary? That the decision about loosing your license or not, is not up to the cop, or rather, up to his current state of the mind; like did he had his donut yet or not, or maybe he had an argue with his wife or a boyfriend last night and didnít get it, or he just red this postingÖ or whatever. At the BCCOM the suggestion was to write, write, and write letters by hand to MLAs and any other politician you get the address too.

Anyone knows any addresses or even emails, hey, post it here. Iím planning to write 1000 letters this year, to every politician in BC and Canada, and although my option about them is same as for traffic cops, what the hell else we can do?

I just heard that a few riders just lost theirs licenses on Squamish highway, and it seams that lots of riders gonna loose theirs as well this year. The worst is, that to anyone Iíve been talking lately, everyone has one and only thing on theirs mindsÖ to run. And thatís extremely dangerous. Itís a little different riding fast and hard on open and empty highways, with lots of twisties and no traffic, thatís what we enjoy and crave the mostÖ but itís the whole different story when you try riding like that in the traffic, in and out between cars, trying to loose cops chasing you, when your agitation is high.

Am I wrong or ill informed if I say that the whole thing started when teenagers, in theirs supper-dupper sporty cars, started killing themselves and others, while racing cars on the streets this and last year? Do we have any racetracks in BC? Big, FAT Ė NO!!! So for many, thatís the choice, the street. Who is the most visible if the street racing happens, the car drivers or we the bike riders? Hey, we are about what, 1% of the total motor vehicles on the streets? So that new crap introduced by cops now, combined with whatís going on with ICBC and insurances, will that kill the motorcycle business in BC as we know it? The big chance isÖ it could. Only time will tell. But guys and gals, we better start doing somethingÖ write those letters right nowÖ or start blaming yourself Ė why the heck you got a sport bike in the first place.

I also suggest, get a little serious and listen sometimes what is said at the BCCOM meetings (you like them or not) or else your enjoyable bike riding years might be soon over and you will not even know how and when that happened.

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This is serious!!!!
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Dino


Moderator
I8R2
Posts: 246
posted May 03, 2002 08:11 PM
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looks like the Canadians better start 'ARMING" themselves.
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jumpin j


Novice Class
Posts: 64
posted May 03, 2002 08:32 PM
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I'm glad you mentioned it!!!!!
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You know FA I never though of that!!! Thanks for the heads up! I guess I'll have to sell my bike now or buy a goldwing, I don't know what's worse. Yeah the last time I was pulled over by a Cop he gave me the third degree for using hand signals instead of my turn signal and because I had my gixxer painted all white, quote " Why the paint job, don't your signals work..this thing isn't stolen is it" Yes officer because I had the bike painted it's stolen. Shit he ran the vin # and was just being a prick, another time in Burnaby I cut down the shoulder to turn right, I was four cars back and was only doing mabey 10mph and he came flying around the corner behind me with his lights and siren blazing and can you blelieve this he asked about the paint job, once again after runing my vin he told me how I could get killed
riding down the shoulder like that. And for good measure he handed me a $80 fine for the infraction. So needless to say I don't ever never ever ride down the shoulder! And because hand signals aren't valid make sure your indicators work!
____________
good consternoon offerable
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Ozzy


Expert Class
Posts: 135
posted May 03, 2002 09:17 PM
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Shit, after reading that I am having second thoughts about crossing the border to attend SBW! Maybe I'll just spend my Yankee greenbacks down here in the states and let those assholes harrass someone other than me! Grrrrrrr.
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frEEk


Administrator
Posts: 421
posted May 04, 2002 01:20 AM
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wtf? hand signals aren't legal? since when? fucking license tester made me use them in the class 6 test. well that sux, since i dont have any signals on my bike right now.

i'm prolyl gonna get flamed for this, but i think the writer of the lette ris being a bit paranoid. i suspect he/she is talking about the new "dial a roadside suspension" thing that was recently enacted and was all over the papers a few weeks ago. an officer can call directly to the office of the superintendant [sp] of motor vehicles and request a roadside suspecnsion at any time. but i dont believe theres nothing u can do about it, as is suggested. i could be mistaken mind u. the letter just strikes me as being a touch misinformed. wondering about the hwy99 suspensions he mentioend tho. what's da 411 on dat shizit? were they really being idiots? i can imagine they prolly weren't. seems alot of cops mistake any spirited riding as insanely dangerous. they just dont seem to get how easy it is to ride at 2 to 2.5 times the speed limit. so if u'r doing like 160 in a 90 zone, it's really a rather relaxing pace, but they think it's suicide. assmittedly, as a cager, it prolly seems that way when we pass them. but really, if u'r gonna be a traffic cop & read riders the riot act every damn day, shouldnt ya be properly informed and trained first? i have only really been balled out once so far, and it wasnt as stupid as the examples provided above.

in any case, this is something that should be taken seriously and properly investigated. to that end, i ask what exactly IS the situation? what powers to the police now have, and more importantly, how are they wielding them? concrete examples?
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fish_antlers


Administrator
some guy
Posts: 808
posted May 04, 2002 08:53 AM
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well freek.. the writer of this article runs a VERY large sport bike rider's club in Vancouver. What he says is very very far from paranoia.. it is the truth. I met him in person and he urged me to read his post and pass it along. Infact last week 2 Hyabusa riders lost their licenses for 2 years for going 60Kms over the speed limit on Cypress Bowl ...

There is NO recourse. There is NO dispute... They WILL pull your license and there's fuck all you can do about it... Basically the guys have gotten lawyers but it will take at LEAST ONE YEAR for the court date to be set up so they are fucked anyways..

BCCOM (BC Coalition Of Motorcyclists) is organizing a protest ride to Victoria on Thursday because of this law...


freek.. you'd better get some signals and mirrors and watch yer ass cuz this is no joke.
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fish_antlers


Administrator
some guy
Posts: 808
posted May 04, 2002 09:18 AM
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The really scary thing about this is that there is no "innocent until proven guilty" .... they just take yer license, case closed.


ANYONE ridiing in BC should watch out! Big time!!!!

Frost
05-15-2002, 08:22 AM
Victoria announces tough new laws to combat street-racing


canada.com


Tuesday, May 14, 2002

B.C. Solicitor General Rich Coleman (Global BC)

ADVERTISEMENT


VICTORIA - Police in British Columbia will be given new power to impound the vehicles of suspected road racers after a spate of deaths among young people thought to be racing.

Solicitor General Rich Coleman announced Tuesday that changes to the Motor Vehicle Act would give police the authority to impound vehicles involved in racing for 48 hours on a first incident.

Drivers caught racing again within two years can lose their wheels for 30 days.

The new penalty is in addition to the police's ability to seek immediate driving prohibitions from the superintendent of motor vehicles for anyone they suspect of racing.

Coleman acted after a recent series of spectacular accidents in the Vancouver area involving suspected street racers resulted in the deaths of several young people.

Coincidentally, the RCMP said earlier Tuesday it had charged two young men after a suspected street race in the Vancouver suburb of Richmond resulted in the death of a third racer and his passenger.

Herbert Chung Ho Chaum 22, and Michael La-Doug Chiu, 24, both of Richmond, were charged with criminal negligence causing death in the Feb. 14 incident where one car went out of control and ploughed into two traffic light standards.

Under the new changes, vehicle seizure could only take place when police intend to charge the driver with a specified offence under the Motor Vehicle Act or Criminal Code, Coleman said.

Police would submit a report to the superintendent of motor vehicles, which may also result in a driving prohibition.

People who have had their vehicles impounded for 30 days can apply to the superintendent to have the decision reviewed.

The instant roadside driving suspensions have already come under fire from some critics who've questioned the constitutionality of imposing a penalty on someone suspected but not convicted of an offence.

Coleman said legal experts are confident the new seizure policy is constitutional.

"We think because of the timeframe of 48 hours and the fact it's involving a serious offence tied to street racing that we think it will withstand a Charter challenge,'' he said.

"I make no apologies for the fact we would remove a vehicle for 48 hours from the streets of this province to try and save a life.''

Coleman said the changes are aimed at helping reduce the number of preventable crashes.

"Unsafe speed and driving without due care and attention are the top two contributing factors in fatal and other serious crashes attended by police.

"Impounding vehicles is an immediate action that removes the threat from the road,'' Coleman said.

Changes to the law now identify different forms of racing to include organized street races, spontaneous racing and so-called hat races, where drivers try to arrive first at a pre-determined destination.

Besides losing their vehicles and having demerit points added to their licences, street racers face up to $2,000 in fines and potential Criminal Code charges.

The racing often involves souped-up imported cars but police also point to aggressive or inexperienced drivers who drive at unsafe speeds.

For example, 18-year-old Whitney Nghiem was apparently racing a Honda Accord on a Vancouver street at estimated speeds of 130 kilometres an hour when she crossed a concrete median and hit a pole, slicing the family sedan in two.

Nghiem was killed but her five female passengers survived.

:mad

Frost
05-15-2002, 09:54 AM
Impounding street racers' cars proposed
Vehicles could be seized for up to 30 days

Jake Kennedy
Vancouver Sun


Wednesday, May 15, 2002

Ward Perrin, Vancouver Sun / Fatal crash in Richmond was attributed to street racing.

ADVERTISEMENT


Drivers caught street racing could lose their cars for up to 30 days under legislation proposed Tuesday by the provincial government.

"It's very clear we need to continue to send the message that certain behaviour on our highways won't be tolerated," Solicitor-General Richard Coleman said in an interview after he introduced amendments to the Motor Vehicle Act.

Under the proposed legislation, police would have the power to impound vehicles they pull over if they believe the driver was involved in a race.

The legislation would allow vehicles to be impounded for 48 hours to 30 days, at the discretion of the officer.

If the vehicle was stolen, it would be returned to the rightful owner.

If the owner of the car was not the same person who was driving the car when it was impounded, the car would be released.

If the driver was the owner, he would be able to appeal to the the Superintendent of Motor Vehicles to have the vehicle released.

Vancouver city councillor Sandy McCormick suggested a more appropriate penalty would be an immediate suspension of the driver's licence for a minimum of two years, instead of the current provision for one-year road-side suspensions.

The Insurance Corp. of British Columbia, which is reviewing its graduated licensing program in an effort to find ways of discouraging street racing, supports the government's proposed amendment.

"Anything designed to reduce the carnage on our roads and help reduce insurance costs, has our support," said Doug McClelland, communications manager at ICBC.

Coleman called the move to impound cars an "incremental step" in the battle against street racing.

He said other measures under consideration include raising the number of licence demerit points for driving at excessive speeds from three to six.

"Nothing will ever stop street racing completely," he said. "What we want to do is reduce the number of people that take the risks or the damage they do when they take those risks."

© Copyright 2002 Vancouver Sun

auger
05-15-2002, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Canadian_Gixxer


whoa man :eek makes me wonder what would happen if I got clocked on radar on thursday headin out to meet R6rider in richmond on highway 99.... Lets just say I had my speedo indicating well over 200 day :D but again, I only do that type of stuff when no cars are around, and of course, no places for a copper to hide and get me :D Though I heard they use aircraft to clock you on highway 99, hence the reasons for those white painted lines you see every now and then on that stretch out to white rock.... so the moral of my post here, when speeding on highway 99, check the sky above you for any flying pigs :)


I believe those painted lines are a mile apart and they time you,if you ride the portion between the lines in 60 seconds= 60 mph.I would think they would have a chart to figure how fast you are going,for example,say if you did the distance in 45 seconds=120mph..................ken.

RoadBlur
05-15-2002, 10:54 AM
Dang this is getting harsh. All a cop has to do is yank you for no reason and claim suspision (which is of course entirely subjective), then when you resist cuz yer getting harassed he can beat your down for resisting and throw you in jail. Its a sweet setup, man.. Jim you better get in fast because all the new positions are gonna be filled by LAPD transfers soon :P.

Can cops use the 'its comin right for us' rule for shootings yet? Or do they still have too much paperwork to make it worth it? Maybe 'its comin right for us, and it has aftermarket lights!' *BLAM*, that'll seal the deal in court for sure.

easyrider
05-15-2002, 12:22 PM
The present mentality about combating Street Racing is a Joke in my opinion. But at the same time, I can understand why "Joe, no life" would see it as viable.
I definitely agree that the street racers in cars that do it downtown need to be dealt with and discouraged big time. Risking your own life on a bike is my right in my opinion, but risking other peoples lives is wrong.
The problem is that with this new legislation, the cops with attitude have all the ammo they need to screw people around in a serious job loss, life altering way.
Many cops have issues with sport bikes, and with the newbie riders picking up a bike with 130+HP and hitting the streets with an invincible attitude, I can understand. But many riders with a few years of experience paying attention to technique can easily comfortable stretch the speed limits on back roads with very minimal risk of injury. Any person with a sportbike that doesn't break the speed limits after a few years of experience and increased ability should really buy something more comfortable and stop posing. I agree that breaking the speed limit and getting caught should be punishable, but with a fine and reasonable points unless it was truly reckless endangerment of other people.
Sportbikers are going to pay dearly for the mistakes of hopped up import cars with drivers that don't know what they are doing.
Can you image what will happen this year at SportbikeWest? It could be a traffic cop enforcement bloodbath.

Personally I feel very strongly that the racing is OK, it just needs to be done at the right place and the right time. Appropriate areas need to be set up and monitored to get people off the roads. Canada (the western provinces particularly) have pathetic track facilities. Most US cities have more support than whole provinces with respect to drag strips and circuits. For a city that hosts the Indy every year we don't provide much support for dealing with all the wanna be racers that it encourages.
It is very hypocritical of the government to pull this crap without providing a safer alternative.
It is unrealistic to try and stop this kind of behaviour, but it is very realistic to try and encourage it to be done in a controlled situation.
But 90% of people in BC will go along with this and think it is great, the couch potatoes will eventually legislate all active sports to be illegal.

SMZ
05-15-2002, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by easyrider
Sportbikers are going to pay dearly for the mistakes of hopped up import cars with drivers that don't know what they are doing.
Can you image what will happen this year at SportbikeWest? It could be a traffic cop enforcement bloodbath.



I'm just curious of your opinion. Is it only "hopped up import cars that are the problem, or is it young drivers in any car of any type that are the problem?

Frost
05-15-2002, 01:50 PM
What about this idea to goto Victoria and do a rally against this?
I was watching the news and one person that they interviewed who owns a performance shop for cars said that why should we all be lumped together because of the mistakes of others? I believe that we should find out what our rights are or it will be a free for all as far as the police are concerned.

James
05-15-2002, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by SMZ


I'm just curious of your opinion. Is it only "hopped up import cars that are the problem, or is it young drivers in any car of any type that are the problem?

From what I've heard in the paper it is mostly imports crashing.

Oddly what I've noticed about most people I know race, it's not the ones with fast cars, its the ones who think their slow cars are fast that are racing. It's the people with the stock Civics, Integras and 4 banger mustangs who do the racing inside the city. It's not the people with the fast cars doing it.

SMZ
05-15-2002, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by Jay P


From what I've heard in the paper it is mostly imports crashing.

Oddly what I've noticed about most people I know race, it's not the ones with fast cars, its the ones who think their slow cars are fast that are racing. It's the people with the stock Civics, Integras and 4 banger mustangs who do the racing inside the city. It's not the people with the fast cars doing it.

what i'm trying to get at is that the car enthusiast label the trouble cars "import". Although most cases involve imports, does that mean all imports, and their drivers are causing this? certainly my mom in her honda isn't street racing and crashing. For some reason I have a problem with this labelling stuff, and stereotypes probably from my sociology background.

I've been around the racing scene long enough to know that it's the idiot drivers that are causing the bad rap on all motorists. Same with sportbikes. A few bad eggs spoil the lot, but that doesn't mean that we should be labelling import drivers/owners as the sole perpetuators of street racing, and crashes.

Frost
05-16-2002, 08:43 AM
I agree SMZ, I dont think just because we ride sportbikes means that we have a disregaurd for saftey or ride reckless. Unfortunately the Police and the general public will! If I do any agressive riding it is done in the country side not in the middle of Vancouver. The only person that I would be injuring is myself. I know my limits and am not too proud to back down. I know that you have to respect the machine that you are riding or it could kill you.

RoadBlur
05-16-2002, 10:17 AM
It's over generalizing (or maybe just generalizing) to label ANY group because everybody is an individual. But nearly every stereotype holds some truth, otherwise it wouldn't be a stereotype. Its rude to judge a book by its cover, but if you've got nothing else to go on, it (IMHO) is probably better than nothing to get you started. Its a major faux-pas in polite conversation, but when it comes to policing and attempting to curb the number of deaths out there.. I wonder if there may be other priorities.

I find it rather arrogant that a ichmond cop would yank some civic driver with a spoiler just because of the car. BUT, I find it an equal measure of stupid that a cop might just randomly sample the entire population of BC which would make him even LESS effective, if he had good information and experience that could double or triple his chances of finding what he's looking for (like hmm a young male, seat leaned back so far he can barely see, 50 race stickers, booms blaring, and a 'I REALLLLLY wanna look cool in front of my friends' kinda look on his face vs. most anybody else). I am going to assume that cops see a lot of crashes first hand an that someone somewhere has some accurate statistics. Now if they can increase their probability of nailing a trouble maker by narrowing their search based on the information they have.. are they harassing one group, or just 'not harassing statisically less significant groups (33 yr old parents in barely running VW bugs)'. Is there a difference? I guess the cops probably don't care since they are really just playing a numbers game like so much airport security (who also flag you if you match a statistical group despite it not meaning you're guilty in any way).

So ya, I can understand why cops discriminate and can only hope that they aren't discriminating based on uninformed prejudice but rather real information. I _do_ understand when 20 young sportbikers get yanked for a talking to instad of 20 cruisers with middle aged drivers and their spouse on the back. It makes a lot of sense (even though I hate it and fume every time it happens.. deep down inside, I do get it).

All discussions on stereotyping aside however.. whats got my dander up TODAY is the lack of checks and balances. With some of these new laws, a cop can really throw a lot of weight around. Being a little judgemental in yanking people so you can give them a once over and look for indicators is one thing, but carrying that discrimination over with the power to virtually convict on the spot (sans evidence) is just downright scary. To me it means I just went from having some overlapping traits in common with a criminal that makes me worth taking a look at, to GUILTY and CHARGED!.

Ack!

SMZ
05-16-2002, 04:43 PM
well said Mr. Murphy.

The difference is sportbike riders are being pulled over and lectured. A small price to pay IMHO to riding a sportbike. However, import car drivers get pulled over and given notice and orders which you cannot dispute in court. so you are basically fined $100 without any form of defending yourself. So imagine if they started this system with sportbikes. Cops can say "I think your bike doesn't meet safety codes, so heres a notice and order (value $100), oh and btw, no disputes. Hell NO, nobody here would agree with that. There should be some sort of recourse for motor enthusiasts.

easyrider
05-17-2002, 10:41 AM
I was busy yesterday, sorry for the late reply.
SMZ: your last post is what bothers me, sportbikers will be seeing the same problems as the "import drivers". What bugs me is sportbikes getting lumped in with the few young inexperienced hot head drivers that wrap their cars around poles downtown with a car full of "friends"??

And yes statistically from what I have seen it is mostly import cars that are doing the street racing within city limits and having accidents. Does that mean all import drivers are dangerous? No more than all sportbike riders are dangerous. But statistically imports seem to be doing the crashing and killing lately. Do I care if it is imports or domestic cars crashing? No, I don't. But I do care that some lousy drivers are giving some over zealous politicians/cops all the ammunition they need to convince the generally ignorant public that it is OK to turn BC into a virtual "police state" (to steal a phrase from the US).

It is one thing to kill yourself on a bike, it is another to kill a car full of friends or run over a pedistrian. Unfortunately the immature/lack of skill actions of some kids with more money than brains is taking away the ability for others to go outside city limits where it is considerably safer and stretch the limits of our capabilities and only putting ourselves at risk.
The general public does not see a difference with this though, so unfortunately I fear we will all be judged with the same over zealous attitudes.

I hope that clears things up.

Frost
05-17-2002, 11:00 AM
Yes unfortunately we all have to tread softly around the public because of the bad press some people has generated it is only a matter of time that all performance vehicals could have more restrictions then we would like. A lot of people already look at sportbikes with distain. Performance vehicles are just that. I dont like the idea that I have to constantly look over my shoulder because of public opinion.

SMZ
05-17-2002, 11:24 AM
easyrider: I was not disagreeing with you, just stating that the public view on the issue isn't the right approach in my opinion. I actually cant agree with you more that young kids need to be educated, and have strict regulations implicated on their driving.

That being said, what if people other than sportbike riders said things like "all they do is race, rice rockets are garbage etc etc". Wouldn't that bother us? Because it does, and we hear it on the forums. My point is exactly that, just using import cars as the subject instead.

anoxion
03-14-2004, 09:53 PM
hey guys. my buddy just sent this too me. i was caught for "street racing" just like described above, two cars driving above the limit and being able to recognize each other (not even friends). the officer pulled my license and towed my car, while the other guy just got a ticket. the officer acted very unprofessionally and i got a 6 months suspension. i didnt fight it in court mostly cuz i was unaware of how things worked and ran out of time because of a number of factors (mostly not being able to drive and the place closing at 4:30..) but yea, its rediculous the things they do, i know i was speeding but the officer assumed we were street racing and bam, i was fucked for 6 months.

mattie_k
03-14-2004, 10:34 PM
Well this is a sorry state of affairs! Soon we all will be getting ticketed for THINKING to fast! If all this suspending of licence horseshit really startes to happen this year, I'm selling all my vehicles. FUCKERS!!!!!!!

But really, who's to say that a law like this won't cause some people to actually try running from the piggers when they get tagged? Rather risk your own neck than hand over your lisence? I use to run (when I was young and stupid) when I would see the cherries light up cause I didn't want to pay a $500 ticket. Could this be the catalist for a huge amount of high-speed pursuits on our public roads?

Everyone needs to buy a new litre bike and get some track time under our belts, then the coppers won't catch us!

FUCKERS!!!!!!

Harps
03-14-2004, 10:50 PM
This thread is over two years old...I don't think they're allowed to do that anymore. :)

(at least I haven't heard anything about it in the last couple of years)

Mechanic
03-14-2004, 10:58 PM
This is now old news. It hasn’t caused a lot more people to try to run (radio waves are faster than a bike). Things have been pretty quiet in the last year and the Police I believe, are showing some intelligent discretion about circumstances and what is truly street racing.
BCCOM challenged a bike related incident and the Police/Law makers backed down.
Do you want to give a bit more detail of your circumstances anoxion?

dazed
03-14-2004, 11:50 PM
been charged twice with street racing and excessive speeding! not a fun experience what so ever! costly to say the least! if u want to play with the big boys make sure u got the money to bail ur ass out! and they dont take visa as a retainer! its a big gamble!

biwwy2000
08-06-2006, 09:44 AM
i know of 2 guys who were stopped last year and had their licences suspended for racing. their speeding tickets were thrown out of court for lack of evidence but the street racing suspension is with the licencing board and all you can do is appeal to them with no court process. they both lost their licence for 1 yr even though they were never convicted of any driving offence.

this is a completely burocratic process with no legal channel of recourse.

good luck.

Motorcycle Man
08-06-2006, 11:27 AM
There is legal recourse, in the form of a suit against the government for violating your rights.

There is a fair change the government would back down and re-instate your license rather than risk losing in court.

rlestage
08-06-2006, 11:43 AM
How do I go about doing this?

Motorcycle Man
08-06-2006, 12:05 PM
You file suit in the BC Supreme Court (http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/sc/).

rlestage
08-06-2006, 01:27 PM
this is only a 15 day where I dont have a license. I need to try appeal this before hand so I can get it back. Anything in the supreme court takes forever

Locksmith
08-06-2006, 01:39 PM
There is legal recourse, in the form of a suit against the government for violating your rights.

There is a fair change the government would back down and re-instate your license rather than risk losing in court.

You forgot one important thing. Have a DL in BC is a priveledge, not a right. That being said, your "rights" have not been violated.

Speed3
08-06-2006, 02:05 PM
Yes indeed. I've been through this whole process, and whomever mentioned the lack of checkes and balances hit the nail on the head. The entire street racing insta-prohibition legislation does not require the application of judicial process thanks to a driver's licence being a "priviledge," not a right, therefore the Superintendant of Motor Vehicles' office does not require supporting evidence (simply the belief the street racing has occurred) to enforce a prohibition. So, should you get pulled over and accused of racing, the steps afterwards are long, ineffective, and utterly ridiculous. First, you write a letter of appeal to the OSMV's office pleading you case. My particular letter included 23 photographs, 5 video clips, and 5 signed and notarized affadavits claiming that I was there in a journalist capacity (as I was). The response was slow in coming, and two months later I recieved a letter in the mail that among other things included the line "you are not taking responsibility for your actions ... you posed a significant risk to the others present." Needless to say, the "impartial tribunal" at the OSMV refused to place a stay upon my prohibition until the traffic courts could decide the matter of the excessive speeding ticket I recieved at the same time (the legislation requires they charge you with a "serious" charge at the time, which is one of three MVA violations including excessive speed, or driving with undue care... and I can't recall the third). After that I waited another 5 months to have my ticket brought before the court, at which point the officer declined to appear, instead writing a note requesting the ticket be thrown out. That was especially frustrating because I'd spent the first two months trying to meet with him and discuss the case with the goal of having him realize what I then thought was his mistake, with the end result being that he remove the ticket (they can do that) from my record.

After that, there was another package sent to the OSMV, at which point they again used their signature anti-logic approach to declare that although it was now a legal fact that I hadn't been speeding, they believe that I was still street racing. That of course took another two months. Finally, I filed a petition with the Supreme Court, and wrote another letter informing the OSMV of that, at which point they fired back with a letter of remittance, and I had my licence back... after 10 months. It was a 24 month prohibiton.

This situation needs to be remedied. I suggest you all write your MPs, the Minister of Public Safety, MLAs, hell, write the damn Premier. But the legislation is not fair, and it gives the police far too much authority. The legislation can stand, but it need to be revised with the application of JUDICIAL PROCESS. Without that, we're living in a police state.

Also, to those wondering, should you fight this in the courts and incur some hefty legal fees there is no recourse. So the best bet to avoid this is to ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS bring some sort of recorder, be it camera, tape, or video. a helmet cam would be the best. And, if you're riding along in a group at speed, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS get the names of numbers off everyone you were with. You may need them to fill out and sign affadavits claiming you may have been speeding but it was not a contest of speed. Photograph everything. Tape the dialogue between you and the cop, and fight tooth and nail to stop the ticket right there at the side of road. Tell him you've recorded the whole ride as well as the conversation, and that you're prepared to dispute the ticket and petition the Supreme Court to remove the prohibition, and resort to threats of filing complaints with the Police Complaints Commissioner if need be.

Note: If anyone's fallen victim to this legislation unfairly, send me a PM, I'll do what I can to help.

Motorcycle Man
08-06-2006, 02:54 PM
You forgot one important thing. Have a DL in BC is a priveledge, not a right. That being said, your "rights" have not been violated.

ICBC wants you to believe that, but it is probably not true.

Revoking a drivers license limits a persons mobility rights (which are a charter right). I believe the supreme court would rule that the government is violating the charter of rights by revoking drivers licenses without due process.

The government knows that few, if any, people will go to the expense of going to court.

coolio
08-06-2006, 03:55 PM
I'm all for giving more power to police but I didn't realize the War Measures Act had been enacted since Quebec last got caught kidnapping and murdering people!

These bullheads gotta do something to make themselves looks good and that they are here to protect and they can't do anything else but set up speed traps b/c Kidnapping is too much work for them and they're too stupid to figure shit out b/c they're just high school graduates that don't know shit!

VDP's are fucken pathetic right now, we are so short of officers right now that they don't even have to complete to full training to start policing or move up. It's 1 yr training but most only do half or something like that.

heisenberg9
08-06-2006, 04:24 PM
After that I waited another 5 months to have my ticket brought before the court, at which point the officer declined to appear, instead writing a note requesting the ticket be thrown out. ...with the end result being that he remove the ticket (they can do that) from my record.

After that, there was another package sent to the OSMV, at which point they again used their signature anti-logic approach to declare that although it was now a legal fact that I hadn't been speeding, they believe that I was still street racing. That of course took another two months. Finally, I filed a petition with the Supreme Court, and wrote another letter informing the OSMV of that, at which point they fired back with a letter of remittance, and I had my licence back... after 10 months. It was a 24 month prohibiton.

That is an incredible story Speed3. I am glad this thread was brought back to life.

Something has got to be done about this especially now that there is a renewed interest in enforcing speed restrictions. I think it is safe to say this kind of situation will become commonplace amongst members of our community.

gsxr_45
08-06-2006, 07:29 PM
The bottom line is the cops are ALLWAYS right lol lol , and your just ink on paper , thats about it , if your really bad they may even try to run you down /ram you , shoot you. for maybe something as evil as pullin a wheelie or doing a burn out .