View Full Version : tips on cornering anyone?



harpz
07-22-2003, 06:57 AM
So this past saturday, a buddy and I decided to ride up to Cascade Falls near Abbotsford, the road leading to the falls is really twisted and really fun to navigate. So on the way back, I decided to push it a little and increase my speed, seeing as how I had already been through the curves once before. So we were both entering corners at about 70 to 80 K/ph. All was well and fun until I misjugded one curve, realized that I was not leaning enough to complete it, panicked and applied the brakes, lost traction and wiped out. My question is to all the more experienced riders out there: What is the most efficient way to increase lean and turning angle when entering corners?

Don't get me wrong, I can corner fine. Its just that after lowsiding my Gixxer into gravel and grass, I'm considering modifying my technique a little.

Thanx.

Geo
07-22-2003, 07:10 AM
Advanced Rider Training course?

http://www.westcoastsuperbikeschool.com/main_page.htm

cosworth
07-22-2003, 07:16 AM
You must be setup initally with some body lean. Look through the turn with as level a head as possible and have your outside foot at the pivot point. Outside foot on the peg pointing up and the heel on the peg. It locks the hips to a good position with the tank so you can apply pressure to the bars for countersteering much easier. Don't be afraid to pull that bike down. It can lean WAY more than you think. A stock gixxer can drag knee through an intersection.

And go into a turn with your line properly setup and your speed scrubbed off. Cars are meant top power through and out of a turn since they NEED load on the suspension. Bikes are different. You want an even coasting radius that follows an optimum line. Sounds weak but you want to just carry an even momentum through the turn and then roll on the gas as you exit.

This isn't moto GP and I'm not gonna tell you to trailbrake into the turn and then hit the gas hard out of it. Just cruise through the turn. Keep a nice even momentum and smoothly power out.

atomlowe
07-22-2003, 08:00 AM
Find a series of continous corners that your comforatable with. Take your time and gradually increse your speed and practise body positioning. When on the street alot of people practice whats known as PACE (https://www.bcsportbikes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11020).

Cornering isn't something that your gonna learn overnight so don't just go rushing into corners. Take your time and learn to do it right. Bad habits are hard to change once made. Look through the corner, level head, smooth on the throttle....ect. Most of all, be relaxed. If your not relaxed you will generally tighten up in a stressful situation. Target fixation is a badthing as well...where you look is where you go. If you tighten up and look at the curb, your goin to hit it. Relax, take your time, find a decent series of corners and practice.

As Geo mentioned, the best way to learn how to corner is by taking a school. I would suggest doin this after your first year on the road. By the sounds of it and you wanting to increase lean angles and such, you may be ready for the course.

Good luck :thumbup

cosworth
07-22-2003, 08:06 AM
golf swing

Proper turn "management" is like a golf swing. It's a series of body positions and inputs to make the execution go well. Remember to do them all and you'll make the green. Or on a bike - avoid the green.

Cometman
07-22-2003, 11:01 AM
It sounds like your error was panicking. The same thing happened to me last year. The key is to concentrate on looking through the corner and you will naturally tighten your turning line.

Cosworth's tips regarding body position are good too. I would wager that you were a looong way from max lean when this happened. It's wierd: you feel like you're so far over but then you realize by your chicken strips that you were no where near the limit.

I've found that shifting my body position and hanging off a little has really helped my speed through corners. Since I don't need as much lean angle that way I feel a lot more confident in my ability to crank it over a little more if need be. And confidence is key to avoiding panic.

rscudiver
07-22-2003, 11:09 AM
Get down low on the bike..DON"T HIT THE BRAKES...and the biggest mistake most riders make in the panic situation...they look at the place THEY ARE GOING TO CRASH! Look at where you should be going way up the road. Where you look is where you'll end up. The second you panic and look elsewhere is the first BIG mistake.

Madkawi
07-22-2003, 06:29 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by harpz
[B]So this past saturday, a buddy and I decided to ride up to Cascade Falls near Abbotsford, the road leading to the falls is really twisted and really ]

Slight off topic,where is is place and how do I get there?
Does not appear on my map.Thanks

rscudiver
07-22-2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Kevin
[QUOTE]Originally posted by harpz
[B]So this past saturday, a buddy and I decided to ride up to Cascade Falls near Abbotsford, the road leading to the falls is really twisted and really ]

Slight off topic,where is is place and how do I get there?
Does not appear on my map.Thanks
Cascade falls is actually near Mission. Stay on Lougheed #7 past Mission Heading East bound. Go past hatzic lake and I believe it's the next left....Possibly Sylvester road???? Takes you all the way to Cascade falls also known as Suicide creek named so for all the crazies including myself that have jumped off the cliffs into the freezing cold pools. Yes the road is very good and has quick twisties.......enjoy.

Harps
07-22-2003, 07:20 PM
Hey, quit stealing my name! PLEASE!

Cosworth and Atom have pretty well said what needs to be said.

One thing to keep in mind...something you have to keep telling yourself: the bike can keep leaning, farther and farther. Assuming your tyres are warm enough, and that there's no shit in road...you can keep leaning your bike until the hard-parts start scraping. You just have to learn to trust it. Getting on the brakes is just about the worst thing you can do...but it's your immediate reaction...we've all done it. You have to program yourself to NOT get on the binders in that sort of situation. There are times when your brakes CAN save your ass...but when your still sorta new to riding, this is one of those things you have to stop yourself from (automatically) doing.

Madkawi
07-23-2003, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by rscudiver
Cascade falls is actually near Mission. Stay on Lougheed #7 past Mission Heading East bound. Go past hatzic lake and I believe it's the next left....Possibly Sylvester road???? Takes you all the way to Cascade falls also known as Suicide creek named so for all the crazies including myself that have jumped off the cliffs into the freezing cold pools. Yes the road is very good and has quick twisties.......enjoy.

Thanks rscudiver,looking at my backroad mapbook I realize it is just on the otherside of Stave lake on the east side.I have only ridden on the west side on Keystone and Dewdney Trunk road area.

I assume at the end of the paved road on Sylvester road by the gate is where you jump off the cliff??With the hot weather this week,it looks mighty tempting to do that.I assume over 50ft jumps.

rscudiver
07-23-2003, 04:08 AM
Originally posted by Kevin
Thanks rscudiver,looking at my backroad mapbook I realize it is just on the otherside of Stave lake on the east side.I have only ridden on the west side on Keystone and Dewdney Trunk road area.

I assume at the end of the paved road on Sylvester road by the gate is where you jump off the cliff??With the hot weather this week,it looks mighty tempting to do that.I assume over 50ft jumps.
Yup, This is a mini Lynn Canyon. The main pool and jump area is about 50 yards from the main parking area, you can't miss it. Be careful we've had a few rescues in that area. I've seen people jump from areas bove the rock cliff where they couldn't even see the water!:(

Bison
07-23-2003, 06:40 AM
Slow, look, lean & roll....the technique for the perfect corner....every time.

Trip
07-23-2003, 10:10 AM
Note: I know there have been other posts about the ART course, but what the heck, here's another one! :p

The ART course is the way to go.

You spend sometime in a classroom setting, with intructors who have been racing for decades, where you go over all the basic techiques of advanced riding such as body position and weight transfer, preloading prior to breaking, compression breaking, trail breaking, counter-steering, higher speed cornering, faster acceleration out of corners, riding in the rain, suspension tuning, etc...

Then there is the Tradex track. Oh man, I had so much fun, it was insane. Anyone who says it can't be any good because it's at the Abbotsford airport has never taken the course. It was great fun. A tight little track; you are alway busy.

As you rip down the front straight, at the end, there is a chicane right before a sweeping right hander (off camber no less!) followed by another chicane in the middle of the back straight, and then a nice tight hairpin. And since you get to see each element of the track every 30 seconds or so, you get loads of practice for each part. And even though it's a right-hand (clockwise) course, because of the chicanes taken at speed, I found both sides of my tires were scubbed - no more chicken strips on either side. You really get a sense of how much tire traction you really have and just how far the bike will lean. And kneedown? oh yeah! easy :p Almost got the other kneedown on the second half of the chicanes. Something to work on next time :)

And they video tape you with a helmet cam on your instructor who follows you around the track. So you get immediate feedback on how to improve your cornering and other techniques. They show you your video on site, between runs, so you can see what you are doing well and what you are doing not so well. Within minutes you are back on the track working on the techniques you need to from seeing yourself ride on video. We had so many runs, by the end of the day (around 4pm) we were all beat. If you push yourself, it's hard on your body. I found my right hand and arm got sore cuz of all the blippin to downshift while breaking, both my arms got sore from all the heaving breaking, trail breaking, and the hard counter-steering. And my legs got all wobbly by the end of the day from pushing my body around to shift my weight from side to side to get through the turns.

I had a great time (I couldn't stop grinning after each run) and I learned a lot. They were very well organized, the instructors were awesome - really helpful, nice, and encouraging.

For the experienced riders I think the track is awesome, especially at the beginning of the season to help get back into it. And for newbies, once you can do all the basic operating stuff (gear shifting, breaking, etc...) without having to think about it, I would highly recommend this course. After taking the course, I find I can take the corners on the hwys totally relaxed and with a lot more assertiveness. I'm able to get around the corners alot faster when I want to and I now know, if I really need to, just how much I can break hard even while leaned.

gixxstar
07-23-2003, 03:56 PM
That's a serious bike. If you've been riding twisties for a while and have the tires heated up, you can drop that bike down to the point of where you are scaping shit on the ground where the road is clean. The basic manuever of that is to countersteer. The harder you push on that inside bar, the farther down the bike will drop. If you're already leaning fairly hard into a corner there really isn't much you can do to scrub off more speed safely unless you practice the techniques at a track. Your best insurance is to plan ahead and set up for the corner properly. Push harder on that bar to drop the bike further. Body positioning is very important for fast corners too. You can hang off the inside of the bike and kind of stand the bike up slightly to lessen the lean angle and keep the meat of the tires on the road. This will enable you to carry a little bit more speed through corners. A lot more with good riders.

It's tough to apply what you read on a web page though. It really helps to take a course and, if that's not possible, ride with a fast, experienced guy who's willing to tone it down and let you follow and copy their technique. It's amazing what you can learn just by copying. Monkey see, monkey do, that simple.

PM me if you have the red bike, I might have some plastic if you need it or know where to get it.

MidniteMan
07-23-2003, 10:53 PM
if you want some ideas and techniques to use, you might think about checking out 'Twist of the Wrist 2' from Keith Code.

good reading, i'm half way through it and i've tried some of the things he talks about, it really works!

if you have time, there is a post on the r1-forum.com about BS (body steer) vs CS (counter steer) and 'the man' actually posted on the board. its a huge post...........

i got mine online from chapters


:rider