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  1. #16
    Registered User Array bikeguy's Avatar
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    Good to know. I was aware of the dainese system but not the alpinestars system. While the snow is on the ground, more research to be done.

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  3. #17
    Registered User Array Squint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doser View Post
    *** good point. not to mention the Dianese and Alpinestars systems:

    https://www.dainese.com/fr/en/corporate/d-air/system/#

    https://www.alpinestars.com/tech-air

    I presume it's way less costly ( altho still very expensive) to develop and test systems for the rider, than systems for a vehicle... is this the future?
    And they've been working on those systems for a long time... over 15 years for Dianese I think. The algorithm to determine when you're actually crashing and not just moving around the bike must be crazy.

    I thought they were just race systems, good to see they have road versions as well.

    But none of the suit systems seem to do much about the thing you run into, while the goldwing system does nothing for you after you've left the bike. Kind of either/or at this point, I have no doubt there will be further advancements.*

  4. #18
    Registered User Array bikeguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squint View Post
    .............

    But none of the suit systems seem to do much about the thing you run into, .............*
    True dat! You pretty well need a cage around you to take care of that.

    or maybe bubble boy has the answer ........... Attachment 143930

  5. #19
    Registered User Array the bartender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squint View Post
    And they've been working on those systems for a long time... over 15 years for Dianese I think. The algorithm to determine when you're actually crashing and not just moving around the bike must be crazy.

    I thought they were just race systems, good to see they have road versions as well.

    But none of the suit systems seem to do much about the thing you run into, while the goldwing system does nothing for you after you've left the bike. Kind of either/or at this point, I have no doubt there will be further advancements.*
    Alpinestars has an off road version coming out next year. They've been working on it for several years. When they first started testing, they used the road version, and just monitored when road tuned triggered events would happen. I believe they were getting 27 triggered events per supercross test lap. So needless to say they have a lot of data.

    Their road labs have monitored over 700 triggered events, and there wasn't a single event where it didn't go off and should have, or did go off when shouldn't have.

  6. #20
    How to ride Array Redhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squint View Post
    And they've been working on those systems for a long time... over 15 years for Dianese I think. The algorithm to determine when you're actually crashing and not just moving around the bike must be crazy.

    I thought they were just race systems, good to see they have road versions as well.

    But none of the suit systems seem to do much about the thing you run into, while the goldwing system does nothing for you after you've left the bike. Kind of either/or at this point, I have no doubt there will be further advancements.*
    This has turned into an interesting thread, and so good to see this technology being developed for rider safety on and off the road.

    Pricey. But if an airbag system could reduce the blunt force trauma from hitting a deer, and offer some protection during the tumble - it's worth every penny.
    'I ride, therefore I'm not here.'

  7. #21
    Registered User Array the bartender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhawk View Post

    Pricey. But if an airbag system could reduce the blunt force trauma from hitting a deer, and offer some protection during the tumble - it's worth every penny.
    As someone who watched exactly this happen in front of him, and saw how lucky that individual was to survive without a vest, there's a reason i've been looking at vest and other options ever since.

  8. #22
    Registered User Array doser's Avatar
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    ^^^ it has certainly occurred to me to wonder whether an air bag system would have triggered fast enough to lower impact forces. no warning... just a big bang...

    ...and so I did the math: total time for an airbag deployment is about 50 milliseconds, i.e, about 0.05 seconds. that includes the detection, response, and inflation time.

    50mph equals about 22 metres per second. one therefore travels about 1 metre in the 50 milliseconds required for inflation. since my incident with the deer involved first contact at the instrument pod, which is only about half a metre away from me, the rider, I'd have to conclude that an airbag, whether on the bike as per the Goldwing, or in my clothing, as per the Dianese and Alpinestars systems, would not have had time to inflate and therefore would not have been useful.

    honestly, the same math makes me wonder about the practicality of the Goldwing system in crashes over about 40 mph. it just doesn't seem like there's enough time for the bag to inflate before you contact the thing you're hitting...

    but then, I'm not an airbag engineer, so I don't doubt I'm not well informed...
    Last edited by doser; 02-26-2019 at 09:07 PM.
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  9. #23
    Original Pirate Material Array TMR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the bartender View Post
    As someone who watched exactly this happen in front of him, and saw how lucky that individual was to survive without a vest, there's a reason i've been looking at vest and other options ever since.
    Also in the hunt myself. I'm considering a soft armor chest/back setup like this coupled with an airbag vest from helite or hit-air. This way you are doubling down on chest protection with the added benefit of possible neck stabilization and rib protection. Beyond what marketing hype has us believe, there is IMHO inadequate prioritization for the protection of the chest and the lower extremities. And reassuring as back protectors are, damage to the spine typically results from shear or axial forces; and so the theoretical protection gained by the 'neck cradle' in the airbags I feel is a worthwhile investment. For those who are interested, there was an interesting study done in Germany regarding vulnerable users (pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists) and injury prevention, causes, etc.: Injury protection and accident causation parameters for vulnerable road users based on German In-Depth Accident Study GIDAS

  10. #24
    Registered User Array Squint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doser View Post
    honestly, the same math makes me wonder about the practicality of the Goldwing system in crashes over about 40 mph. it just doesn't seem like there's enough time for the bag to inflate before you contact the thing you're hitting...
    Deployment times for automotive air bags are similar, and they seem to work? But they only test at 35mph (according to "the internet"). So you may indeed be on to something. * *

  11. #25
    Registered User Array cba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doser View Post
    your post got me surfing for more info, and here's a really nice overview of the Honda system installed in the Goldwings, once you get past the first minute or so of promo-bumpf. nobody else in the motorcycle industry has anywhere near the amount of related expertise (and money) to bring them anywhere close to this level of investigation and development. BMW has the potential to do similar work, because much of the underpinnings lies in auto-based research.

    The accident shown in Goldwing video is one of the most common one.
    Usually results in injuries to:
    - wrists
    - pelvic region
    - head (head first into car's side panel or window)
    Also the catapult effect is known.

    If collision is unavoidable then what can rider do to minimize injuries.

    For example, the manual suggests for cars to accelerate when hitting a large animal.
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