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Thread: NBD - 2019 Kawasaki H2 SX

  1. #16
    Registered User Array 41OVER!'s Avatar
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    Nice acquisition. The bike looks great and it sounds like it ticks all the boxes you need.

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  3. #17
    Registered User Array 41OVER!'s Avatar
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    ....sigh. Weird that you can't just delete an accidental double post
    Last edited by 41OVER!; 09-25-2019 at 06:29 PM. Reason: repeat post

  4. #18
    Registered User Array bacchus40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoolDaddyGroove View Post
    Digby - if the bike doesn't NEED a flash, then why do it?
    so the tuning experts are all full of shit then. gotcha!, why do i feel like its 2009 all over again .

    disclaimer: i'm a technician, cant help but love modern motorcycles and tuning capabilities via BINARY CODE.

    maybe i misunderstood, and you meant YOU dont think it NEEDs it.. ? cause these days that is pretty much all these statements
    amount to. Otherwise why are all these tuners running around learning all this useless programming / hacking etc.

    apparently my Raider never NEEDED the re-flash either, you know.. cause its all analog.

    this is EXACTLY where things become HIGHLY debatable.. FLIP a coin for shits and giggles, IF the bike did not need all that damn
    'after-the-fact' programming, which we know is questionable at best, THEN why would you want to ride one with it all!??

    i have no need to argue on this stuff, its pure logic really.. a lot of folks love to bitch about OEM this and OEM that as if it is
    the H0LLY GRAIL of all things motorcycle.. well, i guarantee you the original engineer who designed this particular motorcycle
    and the software engineer who helped him, DID NOT require all that extra bullshit programming...

    FLy by wire means you crack the throttle, you SWEAR its cracked wide open.. the computer now says, nope.. 30% is all you get and say thank you,!..
    oh yeah sounds like fun! have you noticed how a lot of manufacturers (including Kawi) now offer adjustable engine braking? yep.. there is a reason..

    all the extra safety, EPA, noise pollution BS 'limitations' on such a beautiful machine are placed there by lawyers and bean counters..
    in this case they happen to work for the US / Cad gov't. in Australia, in Europe and elsewhere for what its worth, its just another
    set of lawyers and bean counters.. nobody bothered to ask what the engineer thought. but hey! its YOUR bike.. have fun

    i am speaking from PERSONAL experience mate.. PLENTY of people SWEAR the 09 R1 did not ever need a REFLASH!! and some of them STILL
    belong to this very forum.. WELL i can tell you 100% without a doubt, IT DOES INDEED require one!! it always did!! that was never the question.

    i'm not even talking about RWHP, and you can do a search 10 years back to see that statement has remained true all along..

    basic math, you got fly by wire? you got supercharger? you want exhaust can? = just tune the stupid thing; if you plan on tuning it?
    please tell me you flashed it.. otherwise its a waste of time.

    Unless of course you're HOMER Simpson and you're happy to PUSH THE BUTTON having absolutely no clue whats going to happen once you do..


    now, if you're still reading.. if it were me!?? why the hell would i spend $23k plus on a motorcycle with a SUPERCHARGER and NEVER tune it..

    just turn the Traction Control off completely.. you wont need it with 168rwhp..



    for those who love dyno print outs.. hmm, maybe there's something else going on cause i see a proper increase throughout the entire RPM range.. not just UP TOP.

    hold on a sec. yep.. this is a sport-bike forum right? i know its a little hard to read, but each dash represents ~ 10hp.



    Quote Originally Posted by TMR View Post
    You obviously haven't heard about the LAG issue.

    pfft, says you.. he just gonna choose to ignore it.. with one hand tied behind his back..

    allegedly of course
    Last edited by bacchus40; 09-25-2019 at 08:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Land Roving
    Life is too short to own ugly motorcycles.

  5. #19
    Registered User Array bacchus40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrashTested View Post
    i believe we all could have predicted said response.. and as such, it kind of self-cancels out dont it?

    hey, i dont make the rules.. dont shoot the messenger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Land Roving
    Life is too short to own ugly motorcycles.

  6. #20
    Registered User Array Sikorsky's Avatar
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    Cool wheels. Thought about one myself ...... then I sobered up. Wild HP Kawis are a thing of my past. But still the lust lingers ......


    And I believe in the superiority of OEM tuning, apart from a PC-V for most bikes. But yours isn't most bikes. Low volume, high prices ..... it keeps most people out of the running. I would be very leery about any tuning mods to something that complicated.
    The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any agency.

  7. #21
    Registered User Array Porschenut's Avatar
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    I feel that it's worth tuning a vehicle once you get used to it after some miles. That keeps it fresh and interesting to drive/ride.

  8. #22
    Registered User Array the bartender's Avatar
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  9. #23
    Registered User Array bacchus40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikorsky View Post
    nd I believe in the superiority of OEM tuning, apart from a PC-V for most bikes. But yours isn't most bikes. Low volume, high prices ..... it keeps most people out of the running. I would be very leery about any tuning mods to something that complicated.
    thank you for at least posting a personal 'thought' or 'opinion' without reverting to an all blanket statement.. as each rider will have
    a different set of expectations.. the problem here is, and i've tried to make this clear.. what you are considering OEM tuning, is very
    very very far from the real thing!! What you are describing is pretty much dead on with what i've come to understand from most
    riders, but sadly i dont think its built on actual facts, more fear than anything with a tiny bit of misunderstanding thrown in for kicks.

    POINT IN FACT!!! IVAN'S PERFORMANCE came up with a PROPER fuel map for my Raider, one which would get MOST bikes within 5%
    of proper tuning, but he expects the OEM ECU to make up the rest.. HE literally admited he knows 100% that is a bullshit approach
    but if he told potential customers the TRUTH then he would have a hard time selling the work.. REALITY is every damn single bike
    responds a little differnt to a tuning, or fuel job.. once you involve all this extra tinkering JUST so you can pass EPA, noise pollution
    & safety parameters it gets exponentially worse. But then because i'm a technician, i have absolutely no problem picking up a phone
    and calling the experts.. Most of these guys are very approachable and easy to talk to. they are the LEaders in their field for a reason.

    in 2016 he flashed my 2014 Raider S with what he had, and it had a couple of glitches which i noticed right away, he found out
    YAMAHA's original tuning / fueling / timing required an extra bit of code they NEVER considered because they figured nobody
    would be able to come up with a reflash.. well, IVAN did just fine!! so fast forward to 2017 RAIDER release, which was THE LAST
    year it came out, YAMAHA reportedly worked with IVAN DIRECTLY and sent over what they had, he looked things over and sure enough
    fvcking with it he managed to get passed the code and voila, suddenly every damn RAIDER responds like a fvcking
    dream and there are no more glitches period!! that to me spells YAMAHA as a manufacturer being BIG ENOUGH to admit
    they are not the end all and be all in tuning, even if it was their own bike.. IT TOOK THEM 10 YEARS!! I called IVAN in 2018
    and he instantly remembered working with me two years prior.. I HAVE A NEW FLASH FOR YOU!! FREE OF CHARGE!! i started
    laughing and said, yes i' know i'm just calling to tell you i'm sending it over.. my ECU came back less than 3 days later and i never
    looked back.. he also provided me with a PCV map from his work on the dyno for a 2011 Raider and i converted it to high
    definition.. i now have all 5 gears tuned and the difference between this and the shitty OEM garbage is fvcking amazing.

    yes, i tune my own bike with the help of AUTO-TUNE/ PC-V using the exact same procedure the DUCATI PIKES PEAK team uses on their bikes..

    it would not have been possible without IVAN.. who is he? oh hes just a TUNER, programmer! that is HIS field!! its what he does.
    so what makes you think an EXPERT in his FIELD would not know how to tune a modern motorcycle? food for thought.. but then i'm a technician,
    I work with complicated, integrated computer systems all the fvcking time and often the manufactuter has to pay good $ to have their software
    worked over by the experts. I have spoken with mr Guhl himself a few times, hes a pretty damn smart dude and i can see why Brock
    decided to go with his expertise for the SX and other H2 models. To your average public, this shit probably looks complicated as shit,
    it most definitely is not the case for expert tuners around the world.. I trust them with my life.

    another story? back in the day when ECUNLEASHED first came out, YAMAHA worked via GRAVEs known connections to come
    up with a fuel programming method that would allow companies like ecuNleashed to reflash oem ecus with fuel maps which
    are built from the ground up with exhaust manufacturers.. in order to tune their own exhaust.. who would you trust to tune
    an AKRAPOVIC bike? certainly not an OEM manufacturer.. its still just a production model, not a race bike with a full support team
    of engineers... the fuel map i have in my R1s ecu was built by LEO VINCE themselves!! its OUTSTANDING..
    Last edited by bacchus40; 09-26-2019 at 08:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Land Roving
    Life is too short to own ugly motorcycles.

  10. #24
    Registered User Array bacchus40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porschenut View Post
    I feel that it's worth tuning a vehicle once you get used to it after some miles. That keeps it fresh and interesting to drive/ride.
    yep... i spoke about my experiences with ERIK b4 he purchased his ZX14R and he was not hearing me for the longest time..
    kept swearing there was absolutely no point in adding an exhaust to it cause blah blah blah.. you could litgerally copy / paste any
    of a thousand different excuses from this very forum, you name it, i heard them all. well.. at 3k kms after purchasing
    brand new he added exhaust and had his ECU reflashed and tuned by NEls down in WA state.. never looked back.. SMART!

    we just spoke of this during summer, he swears it was the best decision he ever made.. even bragged about it to my dad, who decided against any performance
    work on his VTX 1800 (9 years ago).. fast forward to present and i dont go into what the big VTX1800 rides like.. it pales in comparison to a proper tune. is
    HIGHLY restricted and dad is constantly blowing $$ out the door in gas as we cant seem to get the fueling down.. but then a PCV has its limitations..

    dad regrets not having done the work. kinda sucks to see this in his face, and he's a life long mechanic. you'd think he would know better.

    to me, it makes absolutely ZERO sense.. the SX H2 has a surper charger and makes less HP than the R1 which is naturally aspirated..

    hell a 2005 GSXR-1000 makes the same HP with just a 3/4 system or something stupid.. why the fvck would an OEM manufacturer CHOP
    off 50 to 80HP after spending MILLIONS researching and developing a super charger?? so the ZX14R makes more outright power out of the box?
    Last edited by bacchus40; 09-26-2019 at 08:45 PM.
    http://bcusedoil.com/

    Quote Originally Posted by Land Roving
    Life is too short to own ugly motorcycles.

  11. #25
    Registered User Array the bartender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bacchus40 View Post

    yes, i tune my own bike with the help of AUTO-TUNE/ PC-V using the exact same procedure the DUCATI PIKES PEAK team uses on their bikes..
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but their Pikes Peaks bikes are tuned by Micah at AF1 in Austin on his dyno.

  12. #26
    Registered User Array bacchus40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the bartender View Post
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but their Pikes Peaks bikes are tuned by Micah at AF1 in Austin on his dyno.
    oh dude, its not a bubble.. i dont live in those terms.. back in the day work with 'some' of Pikes Peaks bikes for the ducati team were done
    in Las Vegas with help of Dynojet Research's main warehouse, yes on the dyno.. no shit, but once back in Colorado they would use
    a custom version of the Auto-Tune device which is used on the PC-V.. its a fvcking race team i fully understand there are
    partnerships over time .

    i dont follow it that closely, we were discussing the HYPERMOTARD at the time, my contact sent pics of the bike while in town. i've been a fan for a while.

    ONE of such tuners in Dynojet Research circa 2009-2011 was our tech support guy in the R1-forum.. so the process is what he described. There's no magic wand.

    I actually spoke with him earlier this year, as he still works at Dynojet, their sister company makes some products for my Raider

    they've assisted us over the years and we run a high definition map, but of course i tune for street use.. i dont need a dyno. Race Teams are squeezing
    every last drop of power from their bikes.. but you still need to know how it behaves where they actually race dont you think?

    Austin is a long fvcking way from Pikes Peak.. Bike gets pre-tuned in a controlled location, on a dyno, but if changes need to be
    made on the hill its pretty quick and easy. or you're telling me every single tune is just perfect and accounts for every
    possible variance, 3 months before race day? If the tools are available, why would you not utilize them? the app is pretty easy to use.


    Dynojet's Dusty Schaller, i think he deserves a little credit:



    watch the video, the POD-300 display, the AUTO-TUNE & PCV.. thats what i run on both my R1 & Raider S!
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    Last edited by bacchus40; 09-27-2019 at 12:36 AM.
    http://bcusedoil.com/

    Quote Originally Posted by Land Roving
    Life is too short to own ugly motorcycles.

  13. #27
    lover of twins Array syncro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bacchus40 View Post
    ...
    holy shit dude, I'm reading through this thread and wondering if you ever take the time to consider that maybe you should just shut your yap once in a while?
    Last edited by syncro; 09-27-2019 at 07:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sAdam View Post
    Most everyone on here is worth a laugh or has a good insight at one time or another, even syncro.

  14. #28
    Registered User Array the bartender's Avatar
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    I love how he always brings up something not relevant to the conversation, gets called on it, and then brings up something else equally not relevant. Generally mixed in are lots of 'i met', 'this guy', and 'internet friend' trying to validate things he has no real world experience. He is also the guy that posted a whine/rant about people who post on the internet with no real world experience on the topic- while he continually does exactly that.

    He would clearly benefit from listening more, and talking less.

  15. #29
    Moderator Array CoolDaddyGroove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bacchus40 View Post
    yep... i spoke about my experiences with ERIK b4 he purchased his ZX14R and he was not hearing me for the longest time..
    kept swearing there was absolutely no point in adding an exhaust to it cause blah blah blah.. you could litgerally copy / paste any
    of a thousand different excuses from this very forum, you name it, i heard them all. well.. at 3k kms after purchasing
    brand new he added exhaust and had his ECU reflashed and tuned by NEls down in WA state.. never looked back.. SMART!
    Smart? No. Choice? Yes. I did the same thing, not because my 14R needed it, but because I wanted to. Does that make me non-smart?

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchus40 View Post
    .....to me, it makes absolutely ZERO sense.. the SX H2 has a surper charger and makes less HP than the R1 which is naturally aspirated..
    Very judgy of you based on zero experience on this bike. You can bench race all day long, study dyno charts, hang your hat on peak horsepower, talk to your "buddies" on a forum, it means fuck all in the end. Real world seat of the pants is the only way one will know how a bike performs , what it is like to live with, and if it meets one's expectations.

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchus40 View Post
    hell a 2005 GSXR-1000 makes the same HP with just a 3/4 system or something stupid.. why the fvck would an OEM manufacturer CHOP
    off 50 to 80HP after spending MILLIONS researching and developing a super charger?? so the ZX14R makes more outright power out of the box?
    I'm not sure WTF these bikes have to do as a comparison. Here's a Pro-Tip. I owned both bikes, ridden them both extensively. Neither are Sport Tourers (although the ZX14/R can be dressed up like one. You want king of HP? Take a hard look at an H2R.
    DON'T STUFF THE CAGERS!

  16. #30
    Moderator Array CHIA's Avatar
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    If you can tune the lag out of that motor it seems a logical choice to me.....why not get the most from it?
    Quote Originally Posted by G Hats View Post
    A sore ass is better than a shredded back!
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