Justice for Robert Dziekanski - Page 11
Page 11 of 22 FirstFirst ... 9 10 11 12 13 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 165 of 324

Thread: Justice for Robert Dziekanski

  1. #151
    From N00bie to Wannabe Array FASTn50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Vancouver
    Bike
    2005 VFR 800A (Red!) 2006 CFR 450X (Red!) 2012 Ninja 250R (Red!) 2012 BMW F800GS (Blue/White)
    There is so much wrong with this story.

    Hopefully, lessons will be learned and it won't happen again. Compassion is supposed to be one of the core values of the RCMP. The tactics used seem to be more from a police state with an attitude that every situation involves bad guys and perps. What would they think if a loved one in their family were similarly treated in a foreign contry?

    More and more police seem to have a take em down swat mentality and there are occasions I can't blame them given the situations they find themselves in. Tasers are still a new toy for the protection services and as time passes it is becoming obvious they are not as non lethal as originally thought and have so much potential for miss use or abuse. It was shocking to observe how little assessment was done by the members given it was obvious there was no iminent threat to life or limb.

    I can only hope that even one of those trained officers began to administer CPR or did all involved continue to mill about waiting for paramedics to arrive? That to me would be most telling about the character of the attending officers. The rest is better training.

  2. #152
    Registered User Array OneTrack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Richmond, BC
    Bike
    2015 FZ07
    Quote Originally Posted by Kabu View Post
    And it's pathetic to see even Canadians evoking 9/11 to justify violent, excess behavior on the part of public servants. "9/11 changed things." Yes it did, but unjustifiably, so when people state things like that they're just repeating some harebrained motto, not appealing anyone's sense of reason.
    Thanks for that....
    We should not fear those who are supposed to protect us more than those they are supposed be protecting us from.
    As I mentioned before, there is nothing more onerous than violence condoned by authority; in this case a level of violence that many consider was "justified" because "everything's changed since 9/11". What mindless rubbish.

  3. #153
    Bohica Array Madman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Steveston
    Bike
    CBR600F4i SOLD!
    Quote Originally Posted by FOXGURL View Post
    MADMAN, Im just trying to get the fact across that if he was there for so long then the airport DID NOT see him as a security threat...up until his last 20 or so minutes of his life. Terrorists don't throw monitors and put things down when people tell them NO.

    That'll all I was going on about.
    Ok, I think were saying the same thing.

    I definetly don't consider him a terrorist and I doubt he was seen that way during the video. It was just bugging me that the media and others say he was in a SECURE area as it gives the wrong impression.

    Once again a sad situation gone worse. I'd just want people to take into perspective what was REALLY happening REAL TIME leading up to this event. Other than the one lady in the video (she's being brave and doing something about the situation), you can tell the other civilians are concerned possibly for their well being. It's a catch 22, because these very people are relaying to 911 there concern. They are worried and they want the police there now! They are wondering why is it taking so long and so forth. These are no the thoughts of people who think everything is fine. I've even heard audio where public questioned why security was there as they felt this was not adequate to contain the man. Even the guy who shot the video was supportive of police when it happened, because at the time he felt it was the right thing to do. He believed he was filming a guy who was freaking out, agitated and not rational.

    Now think of all the information that is flowing to those officers as they are being dispatched and then as they drive to the situation. It's not sounding like a friendly situation. Multiple calls are coming in from a concerned public. The stage is being set. The police were only physically on scene for 10 to 20 seconds but mentally their minds were on it the moment they got the call, which has been minutes.

    This is why an independent investigation by experienced professionals is so important. It goes through what was happening and what information was flowing to then create a decision and a response.

    I think for every incident I've ever been in, I've debriefed and found something I could have done better and at time there were things that could have been done A LOT better. I think everyone has had those moments. The only reason why people aren't critical about their own decisions is because unlike the police physical harm, assault and death are not usual everyday factors or results.

    We as critics have the LUXURY and time of reviewing, analyzing and questioning the video. We try to analyze the what should have been done when many have never been in that situation. Moreover, we our being fed so much misinformation on the event and at the same time don't know all the facts. And better still were all experts

    This is all good to criticize and voice opinion and debate. We've all got that right. And I'll continue to add some perspective as I don't like misinformation and misunderstanding.

    In the end, I just feel so bad for him and his mom. I also feel bad that she will be dragged through this pain for many years. She will be used for other peoples causes who had no vehicle for their own prior to this. I will despise the lawyers who will twist and turn the truth. And because of these it will turn my stomach more, as Police and Airport cover their asses and play the game against the lawyers and the media. The officers will be coached, despite their careers now potentially being over. So much money will be spent and time wasted debating. And in the end what will be solved, justice? No probably not ....
    My Photo Gallery!

    R.I.P. Danimal

  4. #154
    just having fun Array
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    bc
    Bike
    not red
    Quote Originally Posted by Madman View Post
    you can tell the other civilians are concerned possibly for their well being. It's a catch 22, because these very people are relaying to 911 there concern. They are worried and they want the police there now!
    don't know about others but if i were concerned about my well being i would not sit there, watch, or film the guy. i would be outta there without even thinking twice. not sure if those ppl were concerned or just annoyed by some guy that was disturbing their piece and quite. for example at some point you can hear the guy behind the camera saying " jesus christ" with a clear annoyance in his voice; at other time i hear him saying (to either other bystander or someone on the phone) "ya i'm making this video for my personal library". that does not sound as if he was really worried about his well being, does it? but what do i know...

    Quote Originally Posted by Madman View Post
    This is all good to criticize and voice opinion and debate. We've all got that right. And I'll continue to add some perspective as I don't like misinformation and misunderstanding.
    i do appreciate your comments. the mere fact that you post your rational perspective, not even working there anymore, shows that you care. seems as though you're one of the ppl who carried out your job responsibilities with due diligence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madman View Post
    In the end, I just feel so bad for him and his mom. I also feel bad that she will be dragged through this pain for many years. She will be used for other peoples causes who had no vehicle for their own prior to this. I will despise the lawyers who will twist and turn the truth. And because of these it will turn my stomach more, as Police and Airport cover their asses and play the game against the lawyers and the media. The officers will be coached, despite their careers now potentially being over. So much money will be spent and time wasted debating. And in the end what will be solved, justice? No probably not ....
    totally agree. the sad thing is that no matter what the outcome, none of this will bring the man back. he's gone. RIP

  5. #155
    From N00bie to Wannabe Array FASTn50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Vancouver
    Bike
    2005 VFR 800A (Red!) 2006 CFR 450X (Red!) 2012 Ninja 250R (Red!) 2012 BMW F800GS (Blue/White)
    Quote Originally Posted by Madman View Post
    Ok, I think were saying the same thing.
    Madman, I agree with virtually all you have said except that in this case the members realised there was no immediate threat to life or limb. This was clearly demonstrated by their actions of turning their backs from the situation, an action they would not have performed if there was imminent danger. No attempt was made to calm the situation or to find out if the situation could be calmed without using force. They performed a surgical take down that was routine in it's performance and application with absolutely no regard for the perp regardless of the perps actions they were witnessing, in less than 30 seconds. They are supposedly trained professionals with a responsibility to assess each situation on it's own merits. The impression is they have one solution fits all.

    If I arrested the kid next door for disturbing the peace and I broke his arm let alone kill him I can guarantee you I would be charged with using unreasonable force. I am not a trained officer of the law. I do expect a higher standard and professionalism from those entrusted to carry out their duties. Professionalism includes following the RCMP's code of conduct that includes compassion, not just expediency.

    I am not against tasers. On the contrary! I think it's But I don't want to see them used as a substitute for professionalism or an excuse for expediency...and on some occasions (not this one) to just kick the cat.

    Thank gawd there was a camera there. At least in this case there isn't a stench left hanging in the air as to how the facts unfolded. There have been many black eyes recently for the RCMP. This is one that can be clearly addressed. Others, such as those responsible for the procedures, services and security at an international facility have lessons to learn too.

  6. #156
    From N00bie to Wannabe Array FASTn50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Vancouver
    Bike
    2005 VFR 800A (Red!) 2006 CFR 450X (Red!) 2012 Ninja 250R (Red!) 2012 BMW F800GS (Blue/White)
    I should add that if they did go by the book then the book needs some amendments

  7. #157
    Kabu
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by FASTn50 View Post
    I should add that if they did go by the book then the book needs some amendments
    Like you said, their approach would have been suitable in a police state, but not within what Canadians have traditionally desired. Though perhaps 9/11 has changed that.

    There was no need for those enforcers to make a quick decision, because there was no imminent threat. The fact that these guys might be green could make matters even worse, depending on how true to their training they were. I really do wonder what goes on inside of a police academy, these days. I wonder exactly how threat assessments are broken down, and how military-like the assigned responses are. Our government still has its no-fly list, right (this has only proven to bog down peaceful, talkative dissenters)? Is our police force becoming so militarized, too? The Canadian Forces has already been fairly Americanized within the confines of Operation Enduring Freedom...

  8. #158
    You just don't act like that in a damn Airport, What if something did happen? Then they rcmp would have been blamed for NOT tasering him. He got what he had coming, its to bad he fell into the small percentage of people that have died from being tased. its like 99.7%
    Last edited by Extremeriderz; 11-16-2007 at 01:18 PM.

  9. #159
    banned user Array adam112's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    home
    Bike
    bike
    Whatever happened to creative policing and talking to an individual before aggressive take downs.

    I think the world today needs to take a step back. There was s time when policing involved assessing a situation and only elevating actions when deemed necessary to an appropriate level, THAT was fine policing. It seems, these days, that it is a very shoot first ask questions later approach. I don't know if it has something to do with the lack of quality candidates for this job, or if it has to do with a possibly darker view of procedure.

    Folks there was a time when police were more patient and understanding. You want to be involved in policing? Be prepared to take unusual levels of risk to your personal well being. Be prepared to assess situations critically and take only necessary actions. Be prepared to be VERY good at this, as well as very CONCISE! Be prepared to help someone, even when they seemingly may not want that help at the time. Be prepared to be humane in your actions even when it seems the situation is not.

    It personally scares me, if not for the sake of potential children I have, that there are people posting in this thread that this is our NEW WORLD and that we have to act differently now.

    Bad things happen in this world, why let it change who we are at the core of our beings.

    I will keep my conscience and good intentions, thank you very much.
    Last edited by adam112; 11-16-2007 at 02:01 PM.

  10. #160
    From N00bie to Wannabe Array FASTn50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Vancouver
    Bike
    2005 VFR 800A (Red!) 2006 CFR 450X (Red!) 2012 Ninja 250R (Red!) 2012 BMW F800GS (Blue/White)
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremeriderz View Post
    You just don't act like that in a damn Airport, What if something did happen? Then they rcmp would have been blamed for NOT tasering him. He got what he had coming, its to bad he fell into the small percentage of people that have died from being tased. its like 99.7%
    In under 30 seconds the RCMP aproached him, determined he was unarmed and not an imminent threat to himself or others, turned their backs to him then advanced and overwhelmed him with extreme force. If it was determined he was an imminent threat to himself or others then this would not be an issue.

    I expect professionals entrusted with extreme force to carry out their duties with extreme care. The taser was developed as a tool to replace where ever possible the firearm to minimize lethal force, not as a tool for general application.

    It has been common knowlege for several months now there may be problems employing the taser in many situations. I would expect that the person who is authorized to pull the trigger would be fully versed on those problems and avoid the tasers use unless there is an imminent threat.

    If standard procedure is what we have witnessed then the standard needs to be changed so reasonable force is used and weapons only used where apropriate and not just for convenience.

    I hope you never find yourself in similar curcumstances if you feel the actions were justified!

  11. #161
    Registered User Array MrCheeky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Metro Vancouver
    Bike
    BMW
    The whole thing is tragic...just some random thoughts...

    - Mr. Dziekanski was coming to Canada to start a new life, see his mother and get a job. This had apparently been planned for years, yet he spoke no English whatsoever? Personally, if I was to travel to Poland or another non-english speaking country with the intent on living and working there, I would at least learn some of the native language ("I don't speak english" "Do you speak Polish" etc...).

    - For someone who was a complete novice at travel, perhaps his mother could have made more detailed arrangements? I can be contacted at XXX-XXXX phone number? He could write it down and at least show it to an airport employee when he arrived? No backup plan for if they don't meet up (other than shout and huck things around of course).

    - I've had to wait for several hours in an airport before, yes it's frustrating and sometimes you feel like hucking things around...a normal, rational person does NOT behave that way, especially in an airport. CBC reported that some witnesses claimed he reeked of alcohol.

    - Why did he stay in that area anyways? He could have left the airport(or at least the int'l arrivals area) at any time. Perhaps there would have been more airport resources outside that area that could have assisted him?

    - speaking of which, what the hell was the airport's role in this? Yes the RCMP's role is being examine din this, however, I have yet to see any spokespoerson from YVR explain exactly what happened at their end. How many times did they speak with the mother? Really how hard did they work to help her? Perhaps less $$$ on native carving s and jade sculptures and put that money into resources that will actually help travellers.

    - regarding the incident itself. I think the RCMP elevated their force right to the taser without at least trying some lower levels first. That said, I don't think the taser killed him. The toxicology I believe was inconclusive for cause of death, I don't think it said he had no alcohol in his system. As others have mentioned, the positional asphyxia may have been the cause.

    - in the end, it is a tragedy that could have easily been prevented waaaay prior to police arrival.

  12. #162
    From N00bie to Wannabe Array FASTn50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Vancouver
    Bike
    2005 VFR 800A (Red!) 2006 CFR 450X (Red!) 2012 Ninja 250R (Red!) 2012 BMW F800GS (Blue/White)
    Sorry to rant. I'm extremely upset at the callousness of the response, disinterest of those working at the facility and the spin of seemingly everyone involved from YVR staff to the actions of the RCMP in this very sad tragedy. World class? World class indifference is what comes to mind. Until of course that damn camera surfaced and the facts forced into the public eye.

    My heart goes out to the victim and his family. RIP

  13. #163
    Registered User Array MrCheeky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Metro Vancouver
    Bike
    BMW
    Also, I hope the unemployed Mr. Pritchard sleeps well at night knowing that he made a nice profit $$$ off someone else's extreme misfortune. The amount that he was paid he isn't revealing.

    Of course he says the money will go to his father, who is seriously ill. The same father he hasen't seen for over a year and 1/2.

  14. #164
    Volvo Snow Plow Driver Array SpongeMonster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Vernon
    Bike
    Loud Nasty and Sorta In Control
    Anyone notice the long silver object in his right hand when he threw his hands up? Might be a leg off a stool or something but that looks like an improvised weapon to me.

  15. #165
    The Comedy is in the Back Array Saturnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Warszawa
    Bike
    bro, do you even ride in a straight line? #1 asshole
    just read and saw the video... wow thats fucking terrible. How hard is it to take a man down with 4 cops? What happend to spray?

    i just read some more info on it

    the flight was 15 hrs long, plus 10hrs in the airport waiting for customs.

    this is apparetnlty what happend. This was this mans first flight ever, his mother came from kamloops to pick him up, she asked if he arrived @ the airport after waiting for hours they said no, so she went back to kamloops. She got the call that they fond him and she came back to yvr only to find out that he was dead.

    that is so fucking tragic



    Last edited by Saturnin; 11-16-2007 at 04:39 PM.
    Throttle Trauma 3 - Stunt riding documentary - digital download - visit Asphaltjunkiez.com
    The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •