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Some of you may not have received this notice. The meeting will be open to all who register, I assume that there is a fee for the conference

I think Adele from BCCOM is on the Board

Here is the release



MCC and BC Safety Council Announce...
RPM - A National Motorcycle Symposium

April 19-21, 2007, Whistler, BC Canada
Richmond, BC and Toronto, ON Sep 15, 2006 The British Columbia Safety Council (BCSC) and the Motorcyclists Confederation of Canada (MCC) have partnered to host RPM – an annual National Motorcycle Symposium to be debuted in Whistler, BC, April 19, 20 & 21, 2007 (Thursday to Saturday). This ground-breaking event will address the challenges of Risk and Performance Management (RPM) for motorcyclists. Sharing information about the risks and solutions for the riding community is the goal of the symposium.

The three days of meetings, presentations and hands-on riding sessions will bring together motorcyclists, educators, road engineers, loss preventions experts, enforcement, journalists and other key people to exchange information and develop harm-reduction strategies.

Road crashes among all types of vehicles are one of our greatest public health challenges, resulting in more loss of life and disability for children, youth and young adults than all diseases combined! The fact is that almost all are totally preventable and yet most road users are inadequately prepared to deal with the situations that generate these incidents. Motorcycle crashes are even more tragic, as the motorcycle ironically has the best observation and collision-avoidance capability of any vehicle.

“This is the first time that all the key people will be together to address motorcycle riding issues in Canada,” says Bryan Lowes, Executive Director, BCSC. “Riding brings freedom for riders but that freedom is purchased with heightened skills, knowledge and attitude.”

“This event will be the first of what will be an annual, national event led by MCC & BCSC.” adds Peter Jacobs, MCC General Manager. “We will launch in BC, and then see it move around the country for subsequent events, with local participation and content.” “Canada has been a leader in many areas of motorcycling” says Peter Sheppard, Chair of the MCC, ‘including, for example, rider training. We all love riding, and this symposium will help make our riding environment better.”

Early sponsors for this event include the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia and Deeley Harley Davidson Canada.


About the Motorcyclists Confederation of Canada
The Motorcyclists Confederation of Canada (MCC) is a federally incorporated national not-for-profit association headquartered in Toronto, Ontario. It is a federation comprising national, provincial and local federations, associations and clubs working on behalf of motorcyclists. More than 200 organizations are members, with a combined membership of more than 70,000 riders.

Motorcyclists Confederation of Canada
Suite 6-126 - 2100 Bloor St. West
Toronto, Ontario M6S 5A5

Website: http://www.motorcycling.ca
About the British Columbia Safety Council

The BC Safety Council is a non-profit organization,helping business and individuals prevent injury through safety education. We strive to upgrade levels of safety in all - through training, education and advocacy.

BC Safety Council #2225 – 21331 Gordon Way
Richmond, BC V6W 1J9

Website: http://www.safetycouncil.bc.ca
Motorcyclists Confederation of Canada
Peter Jacobs
General Manager
email: [email protected]
phone: 877-663-6622
BC Safety Council

Bryan Lowes
Executive Director
email: [email protected]
phone: 604-214-7433, local 110



Motorcyclists Confederation of Canada | 2100 Bloor St. West | Suite 6-126 | Toronto | ON | M6P 3J2 | Canada
 
G

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Interesting that the MCC position on helmets is:

In summary, the MCC position is:
• Some recognized helmet standards are antiquated and require updating while all standards need to be better explained to consumers.
• Helmet legislation and regulations should provide for reciprocity between Canadian provinces and territories based upon the operator’s jurisdiction of domicile.
• Newer helmet standards, such as the European helmet standard ECE 22-05, should be included for use across Canada.

Should be interesting.
 
G

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On a lark, I sent a letter to Peter Jacobs, Motorcyclists Confederation of Canada, asking for them to clarify their position on helmet laws. This is the letter I sent:

I'm from BC and we have some unique loopholes that allow almost anything to be called a motorcycle helmet. This has been a definite problem for police enforcement and probably contributed to the severity of at least 5 motorcycle fatalities this year allow. Our local motorcycle lobby group, BCCOM has turned a blind eye to this problem but they link to you're site and you people recommend a national helmet standard.

My question is regarding this line:

• Helmet legislation and regulations should provide for reciprocity between Canadian provinces and territories based upon the operator’s jurisdiction of domicile.

Can you explain this further?

..and this is what I recieved:

Hello Bill: Thanks for your note.

Ah, helmets… yes. If ever there was an issue to polarize the community, this is it. As a national confederation of organizations, we have a challenging line to try to walk.

First, we believe that where standards are reference, they should include all the modern standards. The newest European standard is one what we want to see included, as this would give riders more choice, plus access to modern standards that take into account the most recent research and modern materials. Hence, we want the regulatory bodies that use standards to include the ECE 22-05.

Second, we don’t think it’s fair for a rider in, say, Nova Scotia to be wearing a legal helmet to find himself in violation when he enters New Brunswick. We therefore suggest that if the rider is from Nova Scotia, and if they are wearing a helmet that is legal in Nova Scotia, they be considered legal in other jurisdictions. This assumes the are domiciled in the once province and only temporarily in another jurisdiction.

This is an imperfect position, but meets the expressed needs of our members (clubs and federations, etc.) Some of them are pro-choice… meaning riders choice to wear of not. Others have no strong position.

MCC does NOT take a position for or against helmet legislation. We encourage the provincial bodies to do what’s best for their rider communities. We do however say that IF helmets are a legal requirement, and IF standards are referenced, then those standards should include the most modern standards from around the world, and provide the rider with the most choice.

In BC, or course the law is somewhat unclear, and no specific standards are referenced. As far as BCCOM’s position is concerned, you will have to clarify that with them.
Comments?
 

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MCC does NOT take a position for or against helmet legislation. We encourage the provincial bodies to do what’s best for their rider communities. We do however say that IF helmets are a legal requirement, and IF standards are referenced, then those standards should include the most modern standards from around the world, and provide the rider with the most choice.
A simple, yet elegant, position to take.
However, rather than focus on one issue, such as helmets, I'm impressed to see the diversity of expertise they intend on drawing on, (at the symposium) such as indicated by the statement:
The three days of meetings, presentations and hands-on riding sessions will bring together motorcyclists, educators, road engineers, loss preventions experts, enforcement, journalists and other key people to exchange information and develop harm-reduction strategies.
 

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Maybe I'll try and convince my powers-that-be at work to let me cover this conference. :)
 

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MCC seems to have a good head on their shoulders. No bullshit, just an honest answer.
Funny that is the same position BCCOM has yet you all choose to ignore that. I have sat as a founding director for 4 years on that board and actually helped draw up that statement.

Adele
 

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Funny that is the same position BCCOM has yet you all choose to ignore that. I have sat as a founding director for 4 years on that board and actually helped draw up that statement.

Adele
Nope, BCCOM supports the notion that full-face helmets cause neck injuries. THAT's why we think your organization is full of fucking idiots.
 

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Nope, BCCOM supports the notion that full-face helmets cause neck injuries. THAT's why we think your organization is full of fucking idiots.
BCCOM supports fact, do you know MCC's stand? I do. Do you really have to be so obnoxious? I guess for people that don't know the facts that is the only way they can attempt to get their point across in such a childish manner.
 

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BCCOM supports fact, do you know MCC's stand? I do. Do you really have to be so obnoxious? I guess for people that don't know the facts that is the only way they can attempt to get their point across in such a childish manner.
Answering your questions one at a time here:

Do I know MCC's stand? I guess not. Are they run by a bunch of assless chapped wearing labotomized street rats like BCCOM, if so, I guess they agree with you.

Do I have to be so obnoxious? Yes, when your false information makes all riders look like fools.

I may not know the FACTS like you do. But I know for a FACT that if any rider was going to KNOWINGLY involve themselves in a crash, they'd wear a full face helmet.

I will continue to call you and everyone who uses the "Full Face helmets cause neck injuries" excuse for not wearing one, an idiot without apology; and I challenge anyone, including your hot-shot lawyer to prove to me that they're unsafe.
 
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Well... I'm definatly not going to be that rude but I'd second the fact that you're stance on helmets is silly and potentially dangerous.
 

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BCCOM said:
Do you really have to be so obnoxious?
You know Adele - your first reply to Scott's post:
BCCOM said:
Funny that is the same position BCCOM has yet you all choose to ignore that. I have sat as a founding director for 4 years on that board and actually helped draw up that statement.
Kind of puts people on the defensive... So don't be so surprised at the reaction. I would have thought that your statement would be a little less offensive and more tactful in itself.

Scott has alway said people, "ride their own ride." I think, from his previous posts, he feels people that don't wear proper gear are somewhat lacking in the intelligence department - but he isn't really that far away from the BCCOM stance - hence his original comment.

You are welcome to pick on me... I don't agree with BCCOM's stance on helmets and from my discussions with other past members of BCCOM they quit the organization for that very reason. However... Let's be clear... Not all sportbikers feel the same way I do, yet your initial response tarred everyone ("you all") with the same brush.
 

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People that don't wear proper helmets should not be able to sue for damages. People that drink and drive should also not be able to sue, or be covered, and people who don't wear seatbelts should also not be able to sue if hurt in a crash...
 

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People that don't wear proper helmets should not be able to sue for damages. People that drink and drive should also not be able to sue, or be covered, and people who don't wear seatbelts should also not be able to sue if hurt in a crash...
Shee-yat. That's two things this month that I agree (or partially agree) with.
 

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People that don't wear proper helmets should not be able to sue for damages. People that drink and drive should also not be able to sue, or be covered, and people who don't wear seatbelts should also not be able to sue if hurt in a crash...
While I completely agree, I would never want to see this enacted. Why? It's the thin edge of the wedge.
You start with this, where does it lead? Pretty soon you can't put hot sauce on your eggs because spicy stuff isn't good for the gut, and eventually you might get sick.
 

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Pretty soon you can't put hot sauce on your eggs because spicy stuff isn't good for the gut, and eventually you might get sick.
About 3 billion people who live between the Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn may disagree!:laughing
Apparently, spicy food assists the body in coping with high ambient temperatures.
 

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OK, so you don't agree with how BCCOM has addressed the helmet legislation in this province. That's fine. BUT it's not kosher to bash them like this. The manner you're treating Adele and BCCOM is pretty darn close to violating the flaming rules in many cases and has gone over the line in some. Disagree and discuss all you want but any further name calling of the sort seen earlier in this thread will be treated as flaming and will be deleted.

Don't want to be part of BCCOM due to their stand on this or other issues? Fine. But if you actually want to see a change then why not start your own group. Or even easier, produce a sensibly worded petition, get 500 (I think that's the minimum required) or more motorcyclists to sign it and present it to your MP to raise it in provincial Parliment towards having the laws changed.

THAT is how you make a difference. NOT ripping down someone or some group on the 'net like a bunch of lame armchair quarterbacks.
 

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OK, so you don't agree with how BCCOM has addressed the helmet legislation in this province. That's fine. BUT it's not kosher to bash them like this. The manner you're treating Adele and BCCOM is pretty darn close to violating the flaming rules in many cases and has gone over the line in some. Disagree and discuss all you want but any further name calling of the sort seen earlier in this thread will be treated as flaming and will be deleted.

Don't want to be part of BCCOM due to their stand on this or other issues? Fine. But if you actually want to see a change then why not start your own group. Or even easier, produce a sensibly worded petition, get 500 (I think that's the minimum required) or more motorcyclists to sign it and present it to your MP to raise it in provincial Parliment towards having the laws changed.

THAT is how you make a difference. NOT ripping down someone or some group on the 'net like a bunch of lame armchair quarterbacks.

I disagree Bruce, Adele sets herself up for these types of comments. Usually I'd just look the other way. But BCCOM has a dangerous stance on helmet safety, and with the amount of people looking to the internet for advice, this is a good place for us to voice our concerns and opinions.

I admit my conduct towards Adele is nothing but insulting and harsh, but I believe she deserves it. As a spokesperson of an organization I'd think she would be able to articulate her point a little better, and with the kind of respect she's shown me on here, I don't feel bad for my comments.

That said, out of respect to you I will no longer call her "stupid" or "a labotomized street rat", however, as long as they have that stance on Full Face helmets, myself and everyone I know, will think of BCCOM in that way.

FYI, For BCsportbikes to condone those dangerous views on helmets is much more damaging than anything I could possibly say here.

I had respect for BCCOM a while back, but for them to state that it's a fact Full Face helmets cause neck injuries in such a misleading way as to defend their right to wear beanies... well... I leave you to your own conclusion.

Thanks
 

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I disagree Bruce, Adele sets herself up for these types of comments. Usually I'd just look the other way. But BCCOM has a dangerous stance on helmet safety, and with the amount of people looking to the internet for advice, this is a good place for us to voice our concerns and opinions.

I admit my conduct towards Adele is nothing but insulting and harsh, but I believe she deserves it. As a spokesperson of an organization I'd think she would be able to articulate her point a little better, and with the kind of respect she's shown me on here, I don't feel bad for my comments.

That said, out of respect to you I will no longer call her "stupid" or "a labotomized street rat", however, as long as they have that stance on Full Face helmets, myself and everyone I know, will think of BCCOM in that way.

FYI, For BCsportbikes to condone those dangerous views on helmets is much more damaging than anything I could possibly say here.

I had respect for BCCOM a while back, but for them to state that it's a fact Full Face helmets cause neck injuries in such a misleading way as to defend their right to wear beanies... well... I leave you to your own conclusion.

Thanks
Try as I might searching back through your posts directed at me I have looked for a reason to respect you but I couldn't find a single one. You don't read or at the very least you don't retain. Below are some of what I quess is your "articulate" way of putting your point across even when other members of BCSB tried to point out that you just weren't getting it. A quote from you in the bottom post pretty much says it all. Oh, I highlighted it so you wouldn't miss it.

Adele


08-22-2006, 12:22 PM #62
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Above the 49th Parallel and completely beyond Hope Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple
That's not the point. The point is that BCCOM said publically, on TV, that novelty beanies might be safer that full face helmets in some cases...


The point is, you didn’t read – or understand the very first post! Adele said she was misquoted, she actually said “…I was then asked why some people choose to wear that kind of helmet and I explained that it is some people's opinion (obviously the one's who choose a beanie) that depending on the kind of accident the weight of the helmet can be a factor in neck injuries.” .Note:”Some peoples opinion” not BCCOM’s!
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08-22-2006, 01:16 PM #71
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: surrey Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Scott
I'd still have negative comments about that safety remark.

But just so we can sort it out.

Adele,

1.) Does BCCOM believe that Full-Face helmets cause neck injuries?

2.) Does BCCOM recommend wearing a full-face helmet while supporting the riders right to choose?

If you clear up this issue, we may be on a path to enlightenment.


1)It has been proven that in some accidents the weight of the helmet has been a factor in neck injuies. If you want the details please call Jim McNeney and make an appointment. It has also been proven that beanies have caused head injuries.
2) BCCOM does not make any recomendations on what people wear as helmets.

I still do not know what safety comment you are refering to.

Adele
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Above the 49th Parallel and completely beyond Hope Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple
I do, however, care when a representitive from an organization called "BC Coalition of Motorcycles" defends the idea that a full face helmet could be more dangerous in certain circumstances.


Adele didn't, she referred to arguments OTHERS made to justify their use..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCCOM
Sorry I don't honestly know that. The woman asked me why and I
told her what riders have told me. I gave you a tiny portion of a conversation I had with a reporter to clarify where she had taken things out of context. Please do not put words in my mouth. As for supporting Full Face Helmets BCCOM supports whatever a motorcyclist chooses to wear.



Honey, If I was putting words in your mouth, you wouldn't be having this problem... because you'd actually sound intelligent for a change.

Okay, so maybe I'm wrong, maybe your members actually DO believe that a beanie is safer than a full-face helmet. Well, then your members are a bunch of fucking idiots.

All this being said, I don't care about a full-face helmet law, let riders wear what they want... but don't come on here stating any of this bullshit about it being for safety.

EDIT: I support a lot of things BCCOM does, but that helmet thing kinda takes away your credibility.
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08-22-2006, 11:46 AM #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigon
When something like this happens it all becomes news and it pits cruisers and sport bikes into some very heated discussions. BCCOM has been caught in the middle of the struggle yet once again. So how do you keep both sides happy? You can't!!! No matter what, there will always be a clash between the groups.
BCCOM has done alot of good for the community as a whole. But we all know that we can't make everyone happy. I am not a member of BCCOM and have pondered over that issue for some time. I was at the Gastown Show 'n Shine and the lack of sports bikes was dissappointing. There should have been more planning ahead of time so that large events do not coincide together. This show would have been great if there were a better balance of sport bike and cruisers there. A great time to show that BCCOM supports all motorcylists.



I'm going to quit being a dick for a second and actually offer a suggestion.
Sportriders want you to go for legislation on making 3/4 or full face the law right?

Cruiser camp wants their freedom right?

I say, BCCOM supports the riders right to choose, HOWEVER, have safety demonstrations showing the benfits of a full face and PROVE to them that a full face is not more dangerous (can't be that hard to prove, since the arguing theory is absolute bullshit).

Support that the rider is responsible for their own safety, but also that they are putting themselves at risk by not wearing a proper helmet.

And please, for the love of God, do not repeat that riders believe full face helmets are unsafe... Shut that argument down right now.

That should be a BCCOM bulletin.
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