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Poser Emeritus
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I think everyone other than the problem child agrees. So please enforce the rules already there until there can be rules that do not discriminate about motorcycles. There are much louder sounds in this society than bikes. Do not discriminate, it is wrong.
Dear BCCOM,

Let me remind you that you do not speak for many of us and some individuals see BCCOM as the "problem child" who's actions appear to be supporting the very issues that a lay person (i.e. the majority of the population, who by the way don't ride) would think are contrary to common sense.

BCCOM states "do not discriminate". This is not discrimination. To help you out here are a few definitions of Descrimination

Wiki

Discrimination is the prejudicial or distinguishing treatment of an individual based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or category, such as their age, ethnicity, gender/sex, national origin, sexual orientation, religion, skin color, or other characteristics

Riding like and asshat with open pipes would not be described as having " other characteristics" any more than being a hooligan.

Concise Oxford

the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex:

Let me help you define loud pipes

pub·lic nui·sance

An act, condition, or thing that is illegal because it interferes with the rights of the public generally.
An obnoxious or dangerous person or group of people.

Offensive

Causing someone to feel deeply hurt, upset, or angry: "offensive language"

Loud pipes are offensive, and the riders are in the view of most of the population creating a public nuisance.

Please stop claiming to represent me, you don't and I am not alone.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Dear BCCOM,

Let me remind you that you do not speak for many of us and some individuals see BCCOM as the "problem child" who's actions appear to be supporting the very issues that a lay person (i.e. the majority of the population, who by the way don't ride) would think are contrary to common sense.

BCCOM states "do not discriminate". This is not discrimination. To help you out here are a few definitions of Descrimination

Wiki

Discrimination is the prejudicial or distinguishing treatment of an individual based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or category, such as their age, ethnicity, gender/sex, national origin, sexual orientation, religion, skin color, or other characteristics

Riding like and asshat with open pipes would not be described as having " other characteristics" any more than being a hooligan.

Concise Oxford

the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex:

Let me help you define loud pipes

pub·lic nui·sance

An act, condition, or thing that is illegal because it interferes with the rights of the public generally.
An obnoxious or dangerous person or group of people.

Offensive

Causing someone to feel deeply hurt, upset, or angry: "offensive language"

Loud pipes are offensive, and the riders are in the view of most of the population creating a public nuisance.

Please stop claiming to represent me, you don't and I am not alone.
The Coalition is asking motorcyclists thoughts and opinions on the J2825 as well as noise. We, unlike you, think people have that right when it comes to issues involving motorcyclists. Seriously Bill do you ever get tired of being so right in your own opinion?
 

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The problem and advantage of it being a bylaw is that it is just a bylaw and not really much of a threat.
For that reason I like the idea of it being a bylaw and not a Provincial issue.
Also 92-96db is much better than our current 91db across the board.
It should be a provincial issue, standardized, measurable (WITH SPECIFIED, DEPARTMENT ISSUE EQUIPMENT FOR MEASURING) and 96 db is reasonable. The law should be applied to other vehicles that abuse our ears also. There's no reason btw to have emergency response sirens blaring at 3 am when there is virtually nobody awake.

And for people who say that the sirens are there for our "safety", touche ... that's what the "loud pipes save lives" crowd has been saying. I don't agree with that btw ... and that's the reason I say sirens have no place (with exceptions) being used at 3 am.
 

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countdown to next crash..
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It should be a provincial issue, standardized, measurable (WITH SPECIFIED, DEPARTMENT ISSUE EQUIPMENT FOR MEASURING) and 96 db is reasonable. The law should be applied to other vehicles that abuse our ears also. There's no reason btw to have emergency response sirens blaring at 3 am when there is virtually nobody awake.

And for people who say that the sirens are there for our "safety", touche ... that's what the "loud pipes save lives" crowd has been saying. I don't agree with that btw ... and that's the reason I say sirens have no place (with exceptions) being used at 3 am.
I agree with you on standardized equipment, that makes sense and would be easier to expect that results wouldn't vary from officer to officer.

I still very much disagree with you on emergency vehicles. I'll gladly suffer the sound of a siren at 3am on the chance that if it's responding to someone in my family or myself that they don't get slowed down or into an accident on the way to the scene.
 

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For once I agree with itootill,

Emergency vehicles do not need full sirens in residential areas at 3:00 AM, loud yes, but not full volume.

And all vehicles should fall under noise regulations issued by the province with set rules on testing.
 

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And all vehicles should fall under noise regulations issued by the province with set rules on testing.
How much do you want to bet that buses and trucks will fail under those regs?

As for the discussion about sirens; West Van has banned them at night ... good on them. Other munis should do likewise. 3am serves no purpose other than for emergency crews reminding everyone they are hard at work.
 

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I think everyone other than the problem child agrees. So please enforce the rules already there until there can be rules that do not discriminate about motorcycles. There are much louder sounds in this society than bikes. Do not discriminate, it is wrong.


I don't think motorcycles are being discriminated. Clearly, if standard exhaust systems are kept on the bikes, they would not be fined for excess noise. And even if some power trip self imposed super-cop decided to get his Radio Shack sound meter out, you will argue/win in court with photographic evidence of the standard exhaust.

While I have not been able to find any science evidence that different engine designs cause more or less noise during operation. I can tell you that a performance exhaust fitted sportbike at 13,000rpm is just as obnoxious as a performance exhaust fitted v-twin at 5,000rpm. The thing is, it's not too often a sportbike can be operated around town at 13,000rpm,,,there's just not enough room anywhere to gain the kind of speeds 13,000rpm would garner. However, 5,000rpm out of a v-twin cruiser happens at every friggin' stop sign and stoplight in town.......I would also argue that an unmuffled v-twin at idle is WAY more obnoxious than an unmuffled sportbike at idle.

Thinking about other vehicles out there that cause enough engine noise to prevent people from talking to each other at an outside cafe [clearly unmuffled v-twins are in that catagory], there are not that many. Perhaps highly modified deisel pickup exhaust, maybe the odd civic or some such econobox with a fart can hanging off of it. But again, the multiple small high hertz directional exhaust pulse sounds of a multi cylinder engine simply do not give off the low hertz unidirectional pulses that force people to stop their conversations while the machine goes by.

I'm all for any stoplight heros getting nailed by a noise meter. I think there should be sound meters at every intersection as well as red light cameras. But I think it would be impossible for noise meter camera operators to figure out which vehicle is making the noise in a picture with many vehicles.

I want to point out that if there was no problems with loud exhaust, then nobody would complain. Pretty easy statement, but there it is, it's a problem. Interested parties who feel this loud exhaust issue is more about personal freedom of choice or some such bull shit, or are trying to link it to some kind of safety enhancement bull shit, in a feeble attempt to continue using machines which help garner attention, and testosterone enhancement, clearly are contributing to the inevitable loss of decision making involvement as the greater majority of the population, who are avid non motorcyclists, decide for us.

With regard to the greater membership of our main motorcycle advocate, BCCOM, "perhaps" deciding that freedom of choice of vehicle modification should take precendence as a part of the biker lifestyle , I can only guess the micro demographic the membership majority would be. I understand that the organization's demographic makes the decisions, so I garner no resonsibility to their representatives the direction this is going. I'm of the opinion that this 'micro demographic' may be holding onto a type of motorcycling which in itself has a minor or major objective of public exhibition and 'show' which includes "look at me" loud exhaust[ EVERYONE knows this is factual] . This direction, if it does happen, will be a negative for motorcycle use in this province.
 

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How much do you want to bet that buses and trucks will fail under those regs?

As for the discussion about sirens; West Van has banned them at night ... good on them. Other munis should do likewise. 3am serves no purpose other than for emergency crews reminding everyone they are hard at work.
I'm willing to cut emergency vehicles some slack. Intersections at 3am in this town, turn the sirens on. I did overnight emergency calls to property breakins for 26 yrs in Vancouver. Intersections at 3am are a crap shoot as the drunks try to get home.
 

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I'm willing to cut emergency vehicles some slack. Intersections at 3am in this town, turn the sirens on. I did overnight emergency calls to property breakins for 26 yrs in Vancouver. Intersections at 3am are a crap shoot as the drunks try to get home.
Noise is noise. I can understand cars come out of nowhere sometimes, and there is probably the odd blind person walking into an intersection without a seeing eye dog, but there is no excuse for running a 120 db siren right out of the gate and ALL the way to the call when 90% of the population is attempting to sleep and work the next day. Why do they do it? Because they've always done it. Nobody questions it because it's not in our culture to question emergency response.... it's another reason why nobody asks why fender benders on LG Bridge have been known to attract multiple firetrucks which result in lanes being shut down for longer than they should.... but I digress.
 

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I like traffic cones :S
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problem is the boomers are getting old and are forgetting that they are bitching about the shit they used to do themselves back in the day.

to some people a red lining inline 4 engine sounds like a sewing machine and is annoying. to some harley sounds like a vibrating dildo. to each his own. but those harley guys sure as hell aint bitching about crotch rockets going fast and stuff.

how you cannot see they are using the oldest trick in the book, divide and conquer? first the loud bikes. then the fast bikes. then the bikes.
 

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Fastronaut
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I think it's really the boats that sparked this fire. Along the way motorcyles got heaped on the pile. I"m sure rig pigs and tuner cars will join the party.

The boats run up and down the lake after dinner and you can hear them from the nice neighborhoods.

After dark then the choppers come up for a trip to Joey Tomatoes etc. on the strip mall street.

The only thing that's saved our lake from more of those boats is there are no pickup bars here to go to once it gets too dark to rip around on the water. All we have open late is A&W and the country bar; if you have a 300K boat you're not going to be seen there.

By making it a municipal noise issue the can avoid issues about vehicles being a Provincial responsibility.
 

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I like traffic cones :S
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No. If there weren't loud bikes to begin with. There would be less hate directed towards us. Period.
kinda like if there were no scary guns then your trap shotgun would get less hate?

you cant honestly think that sport bikes would get less hate if they get rid of loud harleys. that is just asinine.

that line of thinking will have us all riding bloody vstroms, if that.

people who bitch about that stuff think anything more than stamp collecting or doing gardening on a sunday morning is stupid, dangerous, and should be banned.
 

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kinda like if there were no scary guns then your trap shotgun would get less hate?

you cant honestly think that sport bikes would get less hate if they get rid of loud harleys. that is just asinine.

that line of thinking will have us all riding bloody vstroms, if that.

people who bitch about that stuff think anything more than stamp collecting or doing gardening on a sunday morning is stupid, dangerous, and should be banned.
You can throw that conspiracy theory out the window with the rest of them. Look, I've got loud bikes. Not near as loud as a chopped H-D, and totally stock. But I've got the sense to short shift the things in town, AND I turn the engine off 200 yards before I enter my neighbourhood if I'm coming home after say,,9pm. It's called respect. What if I revved my bike up outside your place at 1am [about pub closing time around here, where the drunken flatulence parade starts on their way home] . Sounds like you'd like it, maybe get out and cheer me on from the sounds of your response. Your arguments, and the way you explain yourself, is having a negative effect on your case.
 

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No. If there weren't loud bikes to begin with. There would be less hate directed towards us. Period.
i love my loud pipes... period :thumbup


i could care less if it annoys my next door neighbor, i'm no where near him when i'm out riding... and if it annoys someone out there on the road, good! at least he's aware i'm there. :flip
 

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Formerly kanelupis
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kinda like if there were no scary guns then your trap shotgun would get less hate?

you cant honestly think that sport bikes would get less hate if they get rid of loud harleys. that is just asinine. .
Max, you're a fucking idiot sometimes.


If my gun started SHOOTING PEOPLE on their own. then yes. Ban them so I can get less hate on my regular guns.

Your logic is that straight pipes are necessary. They are fucking not. They affect OTHER PEOPLE when someone is operating them. They INTRUDE on other people's lives.

If you argue that they make you safe, then they'll say this: "well, it obviously violates other people's rights when you operate your motorcycle safely. Therefore, BAN ALL MOTORCYCLES since they can't be operated safely without violating other people's rights"



And I or public has no issue with HDs, IF they did not run fucking stupid pipes on them.
 

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Formerly kanelupis
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i love my loud pipes... period :thumbup


i could care less if it annoys my next door neighbor, i'm no where near him when i'm out riding... and if it annoys someone out there on the road, good! at least he's aware i'm there. :flip
I'm talking about short and straight piped HDs that go full open throttle at every light, making my ears bleed.
 

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ahhh... i see... i try not to discriminate

i know i'm gonna be shot for saying this, but i like loud Harleys as well! i've been trying to get my old man to drop some Cobra pipes
on his VTX but mom complains about the noise, which ended up right by her feet previously... now with the TRike setup
there should be no issue, will see... i dont think the old man likes 'em... its too bad.. something sweet about a big arse Twin n' proper pipes..

yeh the straight pipes on some can be abit over done.. but hey... thats how they like 'em... i like my bikes fast and great handling! and loud!!
who am i to judge... i dont think people's dislike for bikes has too much to do with loud pipes.. its mostly rooted in jealousy, weather they admit
it or not... and an extreme lack of education to boot, most cannot comprehend the power to weight ratio and insist we're being dangerous and
unconcerned for other's safety out on the road... ignorance begets hatred... its an endless circle...

whats music to our ears, causes nothing but anger in others, usually among the retired community, but we all know what happened to Indy,
a few over-paid self-entitled idiots thought it was too much of an intrusion on their one weekend to put up with it... off it went... along with millions dollars..
 

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backslider
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In the eyes of the general public, both sptortbikes and cruisers are all lumped into an equal-hate group together ... because.
 
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