[dewdar]

[FIXED] Bike stalled during warmup, wont start anymore

Bike: 1992 Kawasaki ZX6, 32000kms
Rider: little mechanical knowledge & experience, but slowly learning

So I was supposed to go for a ride on Sunday. Got the bike out, fired her up with choke on, and let her warm up. Part ways through warming up, with the choke still on, I gave it a little bit of gas and had a small backfire. Waited a few seconds, gave the throttle a healthy twist, and the bike stalled. I havnt been able to get the bike started since.

Background: Over the winter, I put fuel stabilizer in gas, ran gas through the bike and let sit. Started the bike perodically (its too tempting!) but kept the battery charged. Last time I warmed up the bike was a week ago, everything was fine. Fuel stabilizer is still in gas. This situation is NOT due to a weak battery.

So I thought I flooded the engine...but I've let it sit for two days now and nothing's improved. The manual says that if flooded, hold the throttle at WOT, and crank the ignition. Hasn't helped. Don't flooded engines become unflooded if you leave 'em a while?


help needed & appreciated:
1) is choke + throttle bad? does it lead to flooding?
2) do you think the bike is flooded, how to tell if flooded, and how to unflood. (i've searched & tried WOT throttle + start, mid throttle + start, no throttle + start, etc)
3) what things to start trying / checking to get her up and running

thanks!

 

[Jaybo]

if it was, it shouldn't be flooded days later thats for sure. is the fuel on?

 

[dewdar]

if it was, it shouldn't be flooded days later thats for sure. is the fuel on?

the bike doesnt have a fuel petcock...so I would assume the fuel is on.
It was also running days earlier, and even day-of before I twisted the throttle...

 

[slam]

super obvious, but is there still gas in the tank? (maybe could've run out)

 

[adam devenney]

try bump starting it ! turn bike on put it in second gear roll down a hill and dump the clutch . this will get it goin for u i hope

 

[CrashTested]

super obvious, but is there still gas in the tank? (maybe could've run out)

+1 for checking the gas tank.

 

[gord0001a]

I'm thinking the problem is fuel. If there's no fuel petcock, the bike uses vaccuum to open the valve to allow fuel flow. If that hose came loose, is cracked, etc., you'd have no fuel flow. There was probably enough fuel in the float bowls to keep run it for a few minutes. If it was the fuel line itself you'd be smelling fuel, and similarly, if it was spark, you'd have unburnt fuel coming out the exhaust and you'd smell that.

It's also possible that the backfire sent pressure back up the intake system, which could have been what blew the fuel tap vaccuum line loose.

Good luck!

 

[dewdar]

there is fuel in the tank :s

i'll take the tank off tomorrow and have a look at the vacuum line...keep you all posted.

thanks!

 

[REVELATIONS]

try bump starting it ! turn bike on put it in second gear roll down a hill and dump the clutch . this will get it goin for u i hope

How is bump starting any different from using the ignition? If the engine is turning over just fine, it makes no difference. If your battery is dead however....

 

[doug]

first and foremost, get a service manual. download it from the sticky post in this forum. failing that, snag a clymer manual for your bike. it won't have the same detail, but it will be good enough. that should be rule #1 of all questions. yes, i have the manual -- guide me from there.

if there is no petcock, chances are there is a fuel pump. vacuum pumps still needed a petcock of some kind to work with. in that era the diaphragm was in the petcock, with a vacuum hose to the #3 carb boot. when you turn the ignition on, but not hit the starter, is there a buzzing sound coming from the engine area? if so, that's the pump.

right now, the problem could be anything from a blocked filter/line, failed pump, to your cdi box being fried. pray it's not the cdi. that ain't cheap.

pull the plugs out and look at them. are they wet? that is an indication of flooding and/or no spark. dry them off, and hold one to a bare part of the bike and press the starter. see a spark? if yes, then chances are you have a fuel issue, either flooding, carb problem, or no fuel delivery. if no spark, it's an electrical problem.

 

[HSC]

depending on how many times you fired her up during the winter , i would have o say the plugs are more then likely fouled . especially if you run it with the choke on . pull a couple plugs out , if they are black , replace em.

 

[thehump]

possibly could be:
old gas (replace it)
carbs might be dirty (try some carb cleaner in the tank, and a bit in each carb as well if your up for doin that)
no vacuum (prime the line)

also try:
quick start - ether

check the plugs

 

[Liquid72]

I would say you didnt put enough stabil in the tank ....and the carbs gummed up ...once it was started ..it sucked the gunk into the jets ...you need a carb cleaning ...!!

 

[HSC]

Check The Plugs First !!!!

 

[dewdar]

thanks the suggestions so far...

Doug
I do have a Haynes manual. I just lack the experience in knowing what is what, how things work, and what issues might cause a bike not to start.
You mentioned the fuel pump should make a buzzing sound when I turn on the ignition, there isnt any.
The haynes manual also has a fuel pump for a later model (zx6 E), but no reference to my model (zx6 D). Could it be that my bike doesnt have one?

thehump
What do you mean by no vacuum? How do I check for this, and what does priming the line mean?

**

I noticed a hose connected to the fuel tank, but doesnt connect to anything on the other end. (see linked pictures)

the hose
fuel tank hoses

according to haynes manual's fuel tank removal procedures: "mark and disconnect the breather hose from the rear of the fuel tank". Could this be it? Is it supposed to be connected to anything?


I'll take a look at the spark plugs next, will keep you all posted.

 

[doug]

if you had an electronic fuel pump it would buzz as it pressurizes. i double checked on bikebandit.com, guessed you had a D bike, and saw it's vacuum. you will not hear a buzzing noise. you don't have a pump per se, you really have a vacuum valve or switch. in your second pic, dead center of the pic, is your petcock. that would correspond to a petcock with vacuum on other bikes. can't tell from the details, but the brass looking thing on it.. does it move? is it marked with on/off or something similar? the small hose will be the vacuum line. when gas/air flows thru one of the carb boots (normally #3) negative pressure will develop, and a diaphragm in the petcock will open, allowing fuel to flow to the carbs. the large hose is your gas line. the clamp on there looks like it is one use only. see if you can pry it off without wrecking it, and see if gas drips out of the nipple inside. you can disconnect the vacuum hose from the carb boot and suck on it to see if gas will flow as well. if you have gas flow there, your problem is in the carburetors, or electrical.

the breather hose is a line that goes to nowhere from the tank. it is a vent that allows air in so gas will flow. think of it as the breather cap on a red gas can. when that cap is on, gas has a hard time coming out the spout. undo it, and gas goes flying.

 

[HSC]

CHECK THE PLUGS FIRST ,
there is no sense in going balls out checking this and checking that , from what you have described and the procedure you used when storing it , it wont be carbs. fuel stabalizer prevents the gas from forming into a gum and plugging passageways , your vent tube isnt pinched or kinked , and you will know if that petcock works or not when you remove the tank. look at the plugs , they are a valuable source of information and diagnostics. just trying to save you some hassel

 

[thehump]

by vacuum in the line, i mean if there is a big air pocket in your air line, it wont be sucking any fuel out.

By priming the line, i mean take off the gas hose connected to your tank (the other side being connected to your fuel pump then carbS) and pour gas into it so the line is filled with gas

 

[dewdar]

Doug
Thanks for the explanation. I was under the impression that a fuel petcock is one of those swively switch things (on/off/res), so I said that I didnt have one.
I remember pressing that brass looking button once and hearing it click...prior to all this fiasco. I havn't been able to replicate it though. You can push down on the button, but nothing seems to happen (it just comes back up). You can turn the button a bit, but nothing seems to happen then either. it's not a screw :confused


I have finally learned how to check the spark plugs, and they were black with carbon buildup. I'll try to get a new set tomrorow / over the weekend, plug 'em in and go from there.
Thanks everyone who suggested plugs.

I'll post as I try the suggestions. I dont have vice grips nor a gas tank...so I'm shying away from removing any fuel hoses until I get a gas container.

 

[HSC]

ok , first things first .
replace those plugs for sure . if it still wont start , that little copper knob you pushed is a primer i do believe , basically it overides the diaphram and sends gas to the carbs all the time , rather then only when the engine is running , if this has been broken , then it will flood your engine non stop. that could be part of the problem aswell or the only part. this is as easy to check as the plugs if not easier. pull the big line off the bottom of the pet cock , if gas comes pissin out , its done.