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I still don't understand how that whole thing works. Apparently it has value but it seems tenuous at best.
 

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I still don't understand how that whole thing works. Apparently it has value but it seems tenuous at best.
Its value is how much anyone thinks it's worth at the time, like any currency or commodity. More and more online stores were accepting Bitcoin.*
 

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I know there are Bitcoin 'investors' on this forum. Take note that The People's Bank of China has taken notice, as Bitcoin, among other commodities, is being used as a value escape out of China [like Vancouver Real Estate]. A swipe of a pen could reduce it's value to ZERO.


https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/china/china-steps-in-against-bitcoin/
I will admit China is the biggest user of bitcoin. But to say btc will go to ZERO is a stretch. China made serious threats about regulation and banning of btc in early 2014 and bitcoin survived nicely. MtGox was the biggest influence on price and btc survived that too.

The price crashed several days ago and it was blamed on the Bank of China telling citizens the risks of btc. Nothing new. Its happened before. Frankly, btc was due to crash at anytime. It had a meteoric rise from $900 to $1150 USD in just days.

Investing in bitcoin is risky. The reward can be high.

One must keep in mind there will never be more than 21 million bitcoins. That's it.

My advice would be for everyone to buy one and salt it away. Who knows what this shit might be worth in years to come.

I sold a fair number of coins over Xmas. Bitcoin was very very good to me. I've kept some for long term. Perhaps my grandchildren will be wealthy.
 

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^ yep. buy a few. max risk: less than some new bike gear. max reward: god knows.
its a value reserve like gold. all the gold in the world 7 trillion buks, all the bitcoin 13 billion buks. ya it's gonna be more volatile, but the potential reward is so much greater. unless something novel, like quantum computing breaks it (highly unlikely), it's doubtful it will go to zero. its so far and beyond any other digital currency already, it's hard to imagine another one supplanting it. totally not impossible though.
the secret will be keeping it safe if it does go stupid. if a bit coin goes to a million buks, all the InfoSec in the world will be hardly enough to keep your shit safe. bad guys with skillz abound, and people dabbling in this shit aren't nearly paranoid enough.
 

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^ yep. buy a few. max risk: less than some new bike gear. max reward: god knows.
its a value reserve like gold. all the gold in the world 7 trillion buks, all the bitcoin 13 billion buks. ya it's gonna be more volatile, but the potential reward is so much greater. unless something novel, like quantum computing breaks it (highly unlikely), it's doubtful it will go to zero. its so far and beyond any other digital currency already, it's hard to imagine another one supplanting it. totally not impossible though.
the secret will be keeping it safe if it does go stupid. if a bit coin goes to a million buks, all the InfoSec in the world will be hardly enough to keep your shit safe. bad guys with skillz abound, and people dabbling in this shit aren't nearly paranoid enough.
Interesting.

My knowledge on Bitcoin is limited, mainly because the aspect that it is a virtual commodity in that you cannot grab and stick it in your pocket, or bury under a tree. I'm a gold bug, and have done very well by it during the economic crisis of 2008-2011. Bitcoin has, IMO, a slight advantage over gold in that the number "issued" is finite, whereas there's still gold in the ground, it's advantage is it's increasing cost to mine/refine it for distribution.

It will be very interesting to see, in the near future, when governments attempt to eliminate the cash society, with the goal of, IMO, ultimate taxability and/or confiscation on every monetary movement from everyone, as all government scrambles for more money to cover unattainable demands on peoples' demands on government, and government employee pensions. Surely gold could be confiscated physically, and no question that Bitcoin could be confiscated and/or monitored during electronic movement. Government has the strongest ability to hire hackers to confiscate electronic monetary movement, less so a sack of gold coins buried in the back yard,,,,,,, or shoved up your ass. Global government is currently trying out partial elimination of cash on the worlds largest democracy [India], where 75% of people do not have a bank account, everything is done in cash, and Australia has recently eliminated one of it's larger monetary notes. Total confiscation has been done before [Cyprus], and will be attempted again.
 

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you keep saying you don't understand bitcoin. I think you should delve in. it's really interesting. I don't think many people actually understand the nuts and bolts of the cryptography that builds the blockchain (I sure don't), but you can pretty easily understand all the rest, and just call that part magic. actually a lot of it is still magic to me. I misspeak all the time when i'm talking about it.

physical gold is basically immune to digital theft, but btc is way more resistant to physical theft. both are totally vulnerable to the ball peen hammer and rubber hose cryptanalysts.
the nice thing about btc is its portability. all you need is your private key, a truncated version of which can even be committed to memory (although the security of those truncated keys is in question).

the weird thing about physical gold and btc is that, at core, they are both a hedge against some intermediate level of financial shittines, like hyperinflation and government confiscation. we have no reason to believe that there would be a steady state there. if it devolved from there into a prepper's wet dream of collapse of infrastructure and law, gold and btc are garbage. preserved food and ammunition are the things.
 

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I ain't shook.
HODL ON!

Yes, bitcoin price recently suffered a massive bear attack at the hands of China inspections.
Good - I bought more. Crypto is so far 'up' compared to my metals, it's in another orbit completely. I'm still debating dumping the old heavy stuff and putting all eggs in the crypto basket. ("you can put all your eggs in one basket -- just be sure to watch that basket VERY closely" -- warren buffet) ((I include more than one crypto in my baskets though))

What China has done here, is actually taken steps towards legitimizing the coin. WHOA NOW SAY WHAT?.
Could they uncover massive corruption and fake volumes and stab it through the heart sometime next week? VERY possibly. (that would certainly not be good for price in short-to-medium term). But they have not come in heavy handed yet, which is actually a pretty good sign so far.

Now, what you should all know... is that the current and final deadline for the SEC to make a final decision on the bitcoin ETF in sometime in March this year. If they approve it, it puts bitcoin on wallstreet as an investment vehicle for the 'average man'. And this china 'crackdown' is actually good in the eyes of the SEC. IF that gets approved... ya best be HODL'in


You're absolutely right Steve that the 'war on cash' is well underway.
Rumors of door-to-door gold confiscation are bubbling up in india.

Ban bitcoin? I hope so. That always works out so well. How did prohibition work for booze price?
That would just open the conversation to introduce a crypto called 'Monero'.... or one of the other privacy coins... (of which, currently, XMR is by far the 'best')... aka, good fuckin' luck, bigbro


and Steve, i know you like your 'touchables'. This is still possible with crypto, if you *really* want to bury it in the backyard -- you can load 'physical' wallets...

This is the new $1000 bill :p



...I'm AM thinking about ordering up some of this shiny stuff to hold some of my XMR's;






---but of course ...this is a sacrifice of one of the key benefits of crypto (no one can 'walk off with it').

Sure wouldn't want to lose a $1,000,000 coin, would ya? :p


--- and another one for Steve -- why not best of both worlds? crypto with a 1-to-1 gold backing:

https://www.dgx.io/
 

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the weird thing about physical gold and btc is that, at core, they are both a hedge against some intermediate level of financial shittines
Exactly. Bitcoin is often referred to as digital "gold".

Its a great store of value and beats the hell out of burying gold in the back yard or hiding fiat in the mattress. You can print your bitcoins to paper if you so desire and lock them in a safety deposit box.

Not that btc is immune to theft. You got to know what you are doing with it. This will be more of a problem as time goes on as sAdam mentioned.

Sadly, the learning curve is still an issue for those starting off. Wallet software can be confusing and complicated but they are getting better. I've been into it for four years and still don't understand all the mechanics of it.

Due to price volitility, bitcoin trading can be extremely lucrative but its not for the faint hearted. I've made some day trading but going long is where the real money is and its not so stressful. I don't want to be glued to a computer 24/7 either.

About other cryptocurrencies? Not so great. There is a glut of IPO, ICO(initial coin offering), and ITO(initial token offering) circulating. These are all scams and have pretty well decimated the altcoin scene in recent years. They collect millions of dollars and go no where. You may have noticed the Chronobank ads in facebook.

Ethereum brought in the most of any ICO. It was hyped up, big time, for a couple years before release. Its been tainted by bad code, hacking, manipulation, and the list goes on. First big red flag with Eth was when they moved from Canada to Switzerland to avoid prying eyes of government agencies. I expect it to keep going down price wise. Buterin, the "genius" behind Eth admitted Eth would continue as a "community" project in the future. Translation: abandon it and retire on the millions he made from it. Fricken scams and ponzi schemes gallore in the digital currency world.

Litecoin is the only altcoin I see that may survive long term not that there arn't other good ones. No scandals and good code may win in the long run. Still referred to as the silver to bitcoin's gold. You would never know from today's price its silver. Price fell gradually over the years mainly due to people buying into scams and losing their shirts. Doesn't hurt to have a little stash of this just in case.
 

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That would just open the conversation to introduce a crypto called 'Monero'.... or one of the other privacy coins... (of which, currently, XMR is by far the 'best').
Monero (XMR) and other privacy oriented coins could see more interest in the future. Not sure how much though. Its easy enough to cover your btc tracks with mixers, vpn, and tor.

I wouldn't go so far to say Monero is the best. It took them years to release a GUI wallet ffs when all the others had em. GUI wallets should have been available from the get go and that will forever haunt Monero. You have to wonder about how serious the developers were about their coin and their skill levels. Did they plan on abandoning Xmr after they made a few bucks? Like ... why make a wallet ... people are buying our shit now ....
 

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i'm cautiously optimistic about ETH; Hands down the most interesting and ambitious thing in crypto at the moment - but yes, it's had a very bumpy road so far, NOT for faint-of-heart investment. ETH is *not* a currency. But what ETH 'aims' to do is so far beyond any other crypto, it's alone out there on the bleeding edge of development - and bleeding edges are bloody for a reason.
There's a reason pretty much every major fintech institution is not-so-secretly exploring 'blockchain & smart contract' technology - many of these being based on Ethereum. It would enable such strange things as "companies without employees, banks without bankers, and laws without lawyers". That's worth hammering out the bugs.
Still early yet though, likely more big disasters ahead before it hits an "inernet 3.0" moment. But that potential is there, imo. So I've always got my eye open for cheap ETH sales :p

XMR certainly beats out Zcash & Dash with their pre-mine & trusted setups. BTC blockchain is only pseudonymous and fungibility is questionable even through mixxers.

to fault XMR devs for building out the underlaying privacy features and functionality *before* finalizing the GUI speaks volumes about development priorities to me. RingCT just went into effect, protecting all transactions, senders, recipients, and amounts *by default* ... is the zcash private transactions even *working* yet? :p

GUI is right around the corner (in beta). Mobile cross-platform crypto-wallet (Jaxx (https://jaxx.io)) is about to release XMR integration "soon". The chinese crypto scene have begun to evaluate XMR in light of recent developments. Several more exchanges rumoured to be considering XMR integration. Future looks bright for Monero imo.
 

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great, a thread written entirely in greek! thanks alot bcsb :laughing
and yet what great treasures were uncovered by decoding those cryptic & forgotten writings ...
 

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GUI is right around the corner (in beta). Mobile cross-platform crypto-wallet (Jaxx (https://jaxx.io)) is about to release XMR integration "soon"
to fault XMR devs for building out the underlaying privacy features and functionality *before* finalizing the GUI speaks volumes about development priorities to me
XMR certainly beats out Zcash
3 months, 6 months to release a wallet ... fine, but 3 fricken years ... ridiculous.

You know as well as I online wallets are a recipe for disaster. Don't know much about Jaxx though. It looks interesting. I might play around with small amounts to test. Thanks.

Zcash is joke. What's it trading at right now ... 40 bucks? Ridiculous again. Going to be another crop of unhappy bagholders. Don't get me going on this shit!
 

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3 months, 6 months to release a wallet ... fine, but 3 fricken years ... ridiculous.
well, it's not that there was _no_ wallet; the command-line utilities took necessary precedence, and works quite well. The code is developed by an open source round table of crypto experts. Roadmaps and development plans had to be designed, structured, and implemented first. The tech must come before the toys.
If it was up to me I'd wouldn't release the GUI until multisig functionality is in... *then*, all the tools in place for increased adoption and usage.


Zcash is joke. What's it trading at right now ... 40 bucks? Ridiculous again. Going to be another crop of unhappy bagholders. Don't get me going on this shit!
indeed! zcrash is only good for miners; they just dump it for BTC. As more gets mined it can only go one way
 

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So,,,,,how do you actually buy Bit, or any other currency of this type? Are there online 'brokers?
 

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I still don't understand how that whole thing works. Apparently it has value but it seems tenuous at best.
good intro for the uninitiated;
 

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So,,,,,how do you actually buy Bit, or any other currency of this type? Are there online 'brokers?
super easy! anyone with internet banking can get up and running, and dip their feet into the crypto world in just a few moments;


1: get a wallet (many options here). A wallet is what you put money 'in'. There are 3 major types, in order of simplicity -> security:

- Software wallet. (Several options: I prefer the easy-to-use multi-crypto-capable Jaxx wallet; https://jaxx.io). Get in on Android, iOS, Windows, Mac OSX, Linux...
- Paper wallet. (https://www.bitaddress.org - generate client-side paper wallet, print out, keep secure, send to-from the address)
- Hardware wallet. (many options: ex; https://trezor.io - ultimate security, can even lose device or plug into malware infested machines without worry)

(I'll assume for simplicity sake, you start with the sofware wallet Jaxx. It handles many cryptos. For now we will focus on BTC)

2: Purchase BTC online in moments with no signup: https://quickbt.com/ca/ . (There's also some BTC atm machines sprinkled around downtown Vancouver. )
- in Jaxx, use 'copy to clipboard' option to copy your BTC wallet address, and paste into the 'address' field of the quickbt website. You don't want any mistakes in the address you're sending to!
- for 'amount', you can purchase anywhere from $5 to $100~ through this site (capped per 24hrs). In BTC terms, that's *currently* (2017-01-14:1611) anywhere from about 0.00461 to 0.09 BTC. (i just type "20CAD in bitcoin" into google search and it autoconverts pretty accurately)
- fill in a phone# and it will text you confirmation code. Enter pin texted to you into the applicable field.
- email address for receipt

--upon completion, the desired amount of BTC will be sent to the btc address supplied; --so it IS essential to get this address correct-- hence the use of 'copy to clipboard' and the QT image codes. Block times are (usually) about 10-15 minutes, and you can watch this get confirmations on the blockchain. (you need about 4 'confirms' before you can re-send BTC you have just received)

congratulations, you've just joined the financial revolution :p

For MORE than about $100 worth of BTC-per-24hrs, you'll need(*) to sign up for an exchange, which does involve the full 'know your customer' compliance.
https://www.quadrigacx.com/ is a vancouver based exchange. It may take a few days to get fully verified, but then the daily caps are much higher

* - or you could pursue an 'off the chain' transaction
 

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You guys in the lower mainland are lucky. Quadrigacx is handy. Just go in and buy some coin. I think they like cash transactions ;) Or make an account to see withdrawal and deposit options. I don't think they need verification under 3 grand.
I do most of my business out of the country and I do need to be verified.

If you are going to deal with large amounts of btc bitstamp.net is the place to go. The only place licensed in Europe as far as I know. You'll get better deals and trades due to the high volume.


Quickbit, Netcoins, and Btms are ok for small amounts and you will pay a premium. https://www.gonetcoins.com/

My wallets of choice are multibit.org and electrum.org. I've heard good things about mycelium for android and iphone.

Try to avoid online wallets but if you must(for small amounts) coinbase.com would be my first pick. 2FA is a must.

Like dnaspark mentioned transactions are not reversible. You have to verify addresses carefully before pressing the "send" button. Any fuckups and you are SOL. Best play with small amounts till you get the hang of it.
 

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so, if ur gonna hodl, how far for security? encrypted paper wallet micro etched on surgically implanted titanium strip and thermite grenade to the hardware, or something stronger?
 
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