BC Sport Bikes Forum banner

1 - 20 of 54 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
For the link challenged

Attached are the proposals that we provided to the Minister of Solicitor General for his consideration. We are hoping that these proposals meet with the approval of the Minister and get your support as well. We feel that the proposals are balanced and have taken all of your comments into consideration. Our only true interest is the well being and safety of all who ride and their friends and families who love them.

The graduated licensing system that we propose is as follows:

'LEARNERS PERMIT'
- written test to obtain Learner's Permit
- restricted bike size (250 cc)
- riders confined to area with a licensed instructor
- must include some street rides / training with instructor prior to road test
- road test to get 'Novice 1'

'NOVICE 1'
- possibly six months in duration
- must have a supervisor (not licensed instructor, but 'friend'/peer rider)
- restricted bike size (ie. 250 cc)
- clearly defined/colour coded plate (ie. orange or red) to properly
designate riders status
- clear role for supervisor and accountability
- log to confirm experience
- road test to obtain 'NOVICE'

'NOVICE'
- possibly 12 or 18 months to 2 years
- unsupervised but with restrictions (ie. restricted bike size - 250cc)
- coloured plates - ie. green (for 'go')
- experience log
- road test to obtain 'Class 6' with same 'size restriction'**

**Restrictions: Each engine size category requires additional experience or
professional training*** and a road test. License will clearly
indicate size of bike individual is allowed to ride. Graduated
engine size licensing is not unlike current regulations for
Class 5 vs. Class 3 / Class 1 etc. (Larger vehicle, more
training required - larger bike, more training required.)

***Professional training/testing can speed up the process to get a larger
bike so that there is no overly onerous time contraints.

We are asking that those who wish to support C.O.R.E.Y. and the campaign for education to ensure safe riding please send your comments to the Minister of Solictor General, the Honorable John Les, in care of his Administrative Assistant via email to: [email protected]. If possible cc it also to: [email protected] and bcc it to me [email protected]

Thank you to all of you!

In memory of Corey, I remain,

Denise
___________
 

·
I like traffic cones :S
Joined
·
15,773 Posts
If they implement engine size restrictions on bikes, they should do the same for cars (ie L drives can only drive something with <100HP, N with <150, full license, go ahead and get that STi).
Would also work if there were more sport bikes made with 250cc engines other than the ZZR. Bullshit timelines too 'cause many people dont ride bikes year round. Also liter sport bike will act differently from a liter cruiser.
I bet if they tried it with cars there would be a huge uproar from all the drivers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,015 Posts
Personally.. I think licencing right now is focusing too much on timelines. Its nothing but waiting.
I'd take away all of that crap and have 2 stages.
Stage 1: Write Written Test, receive "Learners".
Stage 2: Take Mandatory Professional Training.

If you wanted to go crazy.. I suppose you could do it like this too.

Stage 1: Write Written Test, Receive "Learners".
Stage 2: Take Mandatory Professional Training. Receive Restricted "Novice" Licence.
Stage 3: Take Mandatory Advanced Rider Training. Receive Full Licence.


You make the licencing process years, give tonnes of restrictions. But in the end, if they didn't receive good training, and picked up bad habits. The only thing they might be able to do is exactly what's going to be on there road test.


Just my 2 cents,
Ryan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,044 Posts
While I agree that such a program would be good for new bikers, I don't like the idea of more government regulation in our hobby.

It could eventually lead to the government regulating the type of bikes we can buy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,733 Posts
jeckyll said:
Ryan: I think the stage 1-2-3 approach would be fairly useful.

However, I think the biggest problem is that the skills being tested, or that they care about, have little to do with the riding that people do afterwards. Hence they are not very applicable.
Is there anything that will change the way people ride? Some riders are always going to ride conservatively, others will tend to ride more aggressively. I don't think there's been an effective system to train attitude. Teachers (and parents... the ultimate teachers) still have to do their best and send their students into the world.

I like timelines, saddle time is very important. Although I don't really understand the value of a supervisor on a motorcycle, it's not like they can coach you as you ride. Maybe for post-ride analysis.

The proposed enhancements all seem to be geared towards the single bike accident with displacement being a factor. But I wonder what the ratio is between single- and multiple-vehicle accidents with motorcycle? Would we actually save more motorcyclists lives with enhanced driver training?

Otherwise it's similar to the graduated licensing system, which is already required for a class 6 if another license isn't already held. I like mandatory training though. Too many newbs logging miles on their high-strung sportbikes without a day of training.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,483 Posts
squint: I doubt that it's easy to change attitudes. But they do change with time and education I believe.

I'm in the process of reading "Ride Hard, ride smart". Stats from there: approx 50% of accidents are single vehicle. No stats on how many were related to displacement, or how displacement was a factor (not sure how anyone would know).
Again from the above book: From the multi vehicle (i.e. bike and car) accidents, if 50% have some amount of fault from the rider, then yes, adjusting the rider could influence 75% of accidents in which the rider was a significant factor, if not the cause.

.
 

·
I like traffic cones :S
Joined
·
15,773 Posts
You'd think that people would have some common sense and not buy GSXR1K, 1000RR, ZX10/12R, etc as their first bikes, no?
 

·
Lee RideFar
Joined
·
5,463 Posts
Being restricted to a 250cc bike for three years is over the top. You are going to get 250cc riders going right to the 1000cc+ bikes right away. Along with the graduated licenses allow the new rider to get a slightly bigger bike each graduation (500cc/600cc being the highest).

It is a step in the right direction.
 

·
And shepherds we shall be
Joined
·
2,941 Posts
Legislation is just a way for to remove the accountability from the general population.

New riders dont listen to good advice and buy a bike they can't handle, only to end up as road kill? Darwin.

250's can be great starter bikes, but that doesn't make it right for everyone.

I feel education is the way to deal with those issues. Build it into the culture, much the way most people on this site have been trying to do.
 

·
I make grown adults cry!
Joined
·
344 Posts
I think the restriction here is that if you make it extremely difficult to get a license, people will simply not get them. If you think that not having a license will stop people from riding, you're dreaming. I've lost count of how many phone calls I've gotten from guys driving while discussing with me getting their driver's license back.

I'd leave it just as it is now, with two changes.

1) Make the class 6 endorsement "expire" every two years.
2) The renewal can be done two ways:
a) Retake the MST and Full road test.
b) Take an approved "refresher" course from an accredited school once per
year.

If you take the course route, you can "skip" one two year renewal, but in your fourth year, you need to do the full testing to get your Class 6. The idea is that you need to keep the basic skills sharp every year. While there will be guys that keep a small 250cc beater to do the testing every couple of years, you'll generally find that people will do the tests on what they actually ride.
 
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
how can they impose that on riders but do nothing in restricting drivers? while there are many riders out there who have and will hurt themselves because the bike was too much for them, how many are statistics of drivers with vehicles that were too much for them? this is just another cash grab for icbc. another way into my pocket. besides that look at the selection of 250cc bikes! i cant see how that could possibily work. also how many riders had their starts in dirt? dont those people get anything? even if people do take a road course they get no monitary benefit in BC. but in Ontario, and Alberta you certainly do (other places too, but i only know those for 100% certainty).
i would love to see just cold hard facts on the accidents since the introduction of the GLP in bc. and the way they have been effected by the changes made to it.

one other thing how many international drivers are in BC? whats the facts on them? i think they would make the N's and L's look like allstars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
does anyone know the exact restrictions in Europe - I had homestay students that if I remember correctly - 125cc until they are 21yrs old - then they take their final test and can go higher cc at that time... there again some of those 125cc's can go damn fast when they've been "fixed"!!! I do agree that there should be some limit on bike size for beginners though - whether you are 16 or 60 learning to ride - start smaller - learn safer and graduate to what you feel you can handle safely - no more 16yr olds on 1000cc bikes - road kill for sure - sometimes right out of the shop after purchase!!!

my 2c worth....
 

·
Gear Driven Cams
Joined
·
4,411 Posts
An important point to notice here is that this is being proposed by the mother of a new rider who bought himself a litre bike and then promptly turned himself into a statistic. So it's not coming from a rational basis in the first place... It's been proposed by someone who's not a rider, and doesn't understand riding.

Not that it would surprise me in the least if it got pushed through. Anyone who doesn't ride would look at that graduated system and say "sure, that sounds reasonable," when all we really need is to mandate professional training.
 

·
???????
Joined
·
908 Posts
Boydfish said:
I'd leave it just as it is now, with two changes.

1) Make the class 6 endorsement "expire" every two years.
2) The renewal can be done two ways:
a) Retake the MST and Full road test.
b) Take an approved "refresher" course from an accredited school once per
year.
.
Why don't you just put on a new rider tax LOL This would do nothing!!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,195 Posts
The proposal is way over the top the other way. And it doesn't take into account that the vast majority of cruiser riders are not the issue. I agree that we need to provide a little more control to avoid newbies with no appreciation for what they are getting into going out and riding like nuts like that statistic did but these proposals are not the answer either.

For starters saddle time is one of the best teachers by far. But the greatly increased requirement to have a fellow rider along is going to severley restrict the available saddle time.

Remember that sportbike sales are far outshadowed by cruiser sales. Like it or not it's a cruiser world out there by about 10:1.
 

·
I like traffic cones :S
Joined
·
15,773 Posts
Pvt. BLOGGINS

What about people who want to ride cruisers?

Spike

As harsh and blunt as it sounds, it is called natural selection.
 
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
the entire system dealing with motorcycles is idiotic. an R6 has lower insurance than a big slow cruiser? lame. far more newbies are killed because ma and pa give them a brand new 300hp car. its like ive always said, speed doesnt kill people stupidity does. stupidity is getting a 1000cc sportbike for your first ride. stupidity is getting a new mustang v8 as your first car. speed is a by product. i really dont see why handing a stupid person a 250cc bike is gonna save any more lives, when theyre still stupid. they have to respect the power ALL vehicles have. most people learn this over a period of time, but when you jump into something big, the mistakes are more costly. a 250cc sportbike is still plenty fast, but its no where near as practical for someone like me who would be wanting to do some trips on it.
 
1 - 20 of 54 Posts
Top