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Discussion Starter #1
Last week when I was interviewed, by The Province News for the story inspired by the column I wrote for The Vancouver Sun about speed limits in BC, I was told by the reporter that our methodology sounded “too theoretical” or “radical”.

Then on Sunday, The Province came out with an editorial opposing any proposal to implement realistic speed limits that do not make lawbreakers out of the reasonable majority of drivers. In fact, the editorial even implied we might be better off in BC setting highway speed limits lower, since a crash at 120 is four times as bad as one at 60 km/h.

Let's be clear; there is nothing new, radical or theoretical about the proper setting of speed limits. Don't be fooled. If you want proof, you don't have to go far to find it.

Here, read on...

There is nothing radical about correct speed limit setting
 

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Your thread here, and your efforts brought forward to local media and your SENSE efforts definitely show what is happening here. I mean the big picture. It's all about government's [all levels of government] need,,NEED to get more money, from ALL sources.

30+ yrs of social welfare state relationship between government and the public at large has meant that the fiscal demands of government are the highest ever. Now that government debt levels around the world are reaching an apex toward un-managability, pressure from the public to keep it's nose and mouth in the trough of government handouts continues, but government cannot borrow any more to feed the welfare state, and so new and sneaky ways to garner revenue will be the norm. Hence, lower speed limits, higher penalties.

In spite of your best efforts, anyones best efforts, nothing will change. I know it's sad, but the feeding frenzy is about to get ramped up as soon as the NDP get in,,,with their long standing mandate to continue the welfare state in all it's high tax, high union wage, high fee, high debt ways.

Short term, the best anyone can do is give up riding in BC, take your ride to the USA. Better roads, proper posted speeds, cheaper hotels/food/gas,,,,,. Soon the debt levels will bring the same thing to the USA,,,,then it's time to take up sailing,,,they havn't figured out how to tax wind yet.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Steve:
You are right about that. However, the worldwide trend in spite of it, believe it or not, has turned. Many jurisdictions have upped their limits, even in the US since the nationally mandated 55 was lifted in 1996. For instance Utah has gone to the 130 equivalent and parts of Texas 135.

The emperor is definitely wearing no clothes here in BC.

If enough people get behind this, there is a good chance to defeat unreasonable law.

What's needed is a galvanizing event. Photo radar was one galvanizing event and many people said it could not be defeated... but it was ... once enough people got caught in the crosshairs and realized they too were targets. Draconian punishment for marginally bad driving is another galvanizing event. 12,000 impounds so far for excessive speed, which might not... would not in many cases, be excessive if the limits were set correctly.

Several experiences on BC roads, including the one I wrote about recently, have convinced me that the next galvanizing event is around the corner. NDP or no NDP.
 

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backslider
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Shoot y'all - every time I read the title of this thread, I think it says "How to speed correctly" and I get all excited, until I realize that's not what it says.
 

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Tai-Pan
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I would be curious to see where each party leader stands on this issue,do they even consider it one?
Most may dismiss low speed limits,impounds and seizures as a good idea for safety reasons but I think some of us (the ones without our heads in the sand) see the bigger picture ,the complete erosion of democratic society.
Someone should let them know that we are not all morons.
We see what they are doing and at some point so will everyone else.
 

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Nice article.

It's a vicious cycle.

Everyone speeds because the limit is too low. The RCMP smell a revenue source and ticket more. The new slow down move over law causes people to slow down and drive erratically trying not to get ticketed. The speed differentials cause more accidents. The government gets paranoid about accidents and ups enforcement or lowers speed limits. Repeat.
 

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I would be curious to see where each party leader stands on this issue,do they even consider it one?
Most may dismiss low speed limits,impounds and seizures as a good idea for safety reasons but I think some of us (the ones without our heads in the sand) see the bigger picture ,the complete erosion of democratic society.
Someone should let them know that we are not all morons.
We see what they are doing and at some point so will everyone else.
Questions such as these are the ones we ask every election and you can read the responses on the BCCOM website.
 

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I remember when the Coquihalla was built, was quite interested as I had ridden the old railway right of way through there several times, and was supplying several of the roadbuilding contractors, and the one statement that always stuck in my mind was from the chief engineer for the dept of highways who stated that the road had been designed to be driven at 100 MILES PER HOUR. I rode it to Merrit the day after it opened. On the way home, three of us rode three abreast in that range of speed for about 20 miles, I remember clearly feeling quite comfortable at that speed. We passed one Datsun pickup in that time.
Having ridden quite a bit in Europe it becomes apparant that our speed limits are too low. Try 0 ave in Langley at 50 K/H what a joke. Back roads all over the valley at 50 or 60, set a radar trap anywhere and the revenue will explode.

In Australia where I think they are a little better than here, but not really over the top, I find the public in general seems very compliant to the speed limits, mind you the fines are pretty big. I passed a few other bikes there once on a double yello lined big wide sweeper with enough visibility to make it very safe, and got an ear full from an aquaintance whom I had passed about respecting laws in other peoples countries. Pfffffffffffffft. Did I read that right hols?


Up the limits, and toughen the test. People here get a license to point a vehicle, driving one is a whole different matter.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I remember when the Coquihalla was built, was quite interested as I had ridden the old railway right of way through there several times, and was supplying several of the roadbuilding contractors, and the one statement that always stuck in my mind was from the chief engineer for the dept of highways who stated that the road had been designed to be driven at 100 MILES PER HOUR.
Funny you should mention that. Do you know what I have been attempting to do for the last month? Establish the design speed for the Coquihalla. The Solicitor General's office (through the Ministry of Transport) told me the number was 110 km/h. I have also spoken with 2 other engineers. One from the Interior MOTH office and the other from Victoria. They got back to me and tell me the same thing. Doesn't seem correct. I remember what you remember. If you can remember the name or do some digging, I would appreciate it....
 

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Foreign Devil
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Last week when I was interviewed, by The Province News for the story inspired by the column I wrote for The Vancouver Sun about speed limits in BC, I was told by the reporter that our methodology sounded “too theoretical” or “radical”.

Then on Sunday, The Province came out with an editorial opposing any proposal to implement realistic speed limits that do not make lawbreakers out of the reasonable majority of drivers. In fact, the editorial even implied we might be better off in BC setting highway speed limits lower, since a crash at 120 is four times as bad as one at 60 km/h.

Let's be clear; there is nothing new, radical or theoretical about the proper setting of speed limits. Don't be fooled. If you want proof, you don't have to go far to find it.

Here, read on...

There is nothing radical about correct speed limit setting




Every time I read about someone wanting to set the speed limits LOWER (why???) I am reminded of the Bloom County comic strip, in particular the episode as described below:

Milo vs Opus
(Bloom County Meadow, candidates on stools before podiums. Sign which reads "to
Day: Practice Debate")
Milo: I understand that my opponent supports the 55 M.P.H. speed limit.
Opus: Saves 500 lives a year! I fully support saving lives.
Milo: Then he'd support the saving of another 10,000 lives by lowering the limit to 40 M.P.H.
Opus: 40?
Milo: Or to 20 ... Saving 30,000 lives a year.
Opus: Gee... 20 is pretty slow.
Milo: Apparently my opponent would send 30,000 men, women, and children to fiery, mangled deaths just so he can zoom along to his manicurist at 55.
Opus: I DON'T HAVE A MANICURIST!
Milo: He probably doesn't. Most mass murderers don't. Hitler didn't.
Opus: stop it! Stop It! STOP IT! (bangs on podium)
Milo: Rebuttal?
Opus: (frazzled) What?
Milo: Give your rebuttal.
Opus: Uh... Bush is a wimp.
(Opus' washroom, opus in tub in technicolor rub-a-dub hair shield)
Narrator: The candidate retires to the tub...comforted in the knowledge that even "The Gipper" never really sounded totally sober without note cards, either.



Yup, let's save lives and reduce the speed limit to ZERO! Everybody walk! Let's go back to the stone ages.

Also, on a slightly side note, in almost every accident that happens, 'speed' is almost always mentioned. BUT, they never mention that without some speed it is impossible for any accidents to happen, for nobody would be moving. Travelling at 1 kmp is speed. How about telling us how much (if any) over the 'speed limit' the person was travelling, and whether the 'speed limit' was correctly set for the conditions? Or if they were going at the flow of the traffic? What else were they doing besides 'speed' <-note they hardly say 'speeding' any more?

And for those who think the speed limits are set for the safety of the (Using the term loosely) slowest capable vehicle (i.e. Farmer John driving his manure laden 70's pickup home from the bar), explain how a semi-trailer hauling 1/2 of a double wide mobile home (a very big object) is able to cruise down a 60 kmh speed limit road at 80 - 85 kmh's easily? Yup, explain how the limits are set according to road conditions.
 

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Ridin Dirty
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Try 0 ave in Langley at 50 K/H what a joke. Back roads all over the valley at 50 or 60, set a radar trap anywhere and the revenue will explode.
ride it every day, last night, facker was right here on the last long straight-away before 264th.... Eastbound traffic was right in his crosshairs..

https://maps.google.ca/maps?saddr=Abbotsford,+BC&daddr=49.0024,-122.495585&hl=en&sll=49.002412,-122.495547&sspn=0.001263,0.002411&geocode=CUZZtbLB1B7DFSCM7AIdCxS2-CmDt2pwxjWEVDFgBXsqFTUBBQ;&t=h&mra=mift&mrsp=1&sz=19&z=19
 

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Eyes set on the rubbarb
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Last week when I was interviewed, by The Province News for the story inspired by the column I wrote for The Vancouver Sun about speed limits in BC, I was told by the reporter that our methodology sounded “too theoretical” or “radical”.

Then on Sunday, The Province came out with an editorial opposing any proposal to implement realistic speed limits that do not make lawbreakers out of the reasonable majority of drivers. In fact, the editorial even implied we might be better off in BC setting highway speed limits lower, since a crash at 120 is four times as bad as one at 60 km/h.

Let's be clear; there is nothing new, radical or theoretical about the proper setting of speed limits. Don't be fooled. If you want proof, you don't have to go far to find it.

Here, read on...

There is nothing radical about correct speed limit setting
I read your article. It was well written, but I couldn't help but wonder why the province was interviewing you.

What are your credentials on the subject? What makes you an authority on the subject?
Work experience? Education?

I don't vote for a higher limit on anything west of 200th st. I think HWY one is the only highway in the world with a fucking chicane in it.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I read your article. It was well written, but I couldn't help but wonder why the province was interviewing you.

What are your credentials on the subject? What makes you an authority on the subject?
Work experience? Education?
The Province interviewed me as a follow up to the article I wrote. You can find out more here http://www.sense.bc.ca/team/
 

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Very interesting but...what do we do about it? How did the people get the province to get rid of Photo Radar? How do we, the people, not just motorcycle riders, get speed limits changed?
 

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Ridin Dirty
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I say we execute one political figure a week until our demands are met.....
 

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Very interesting but...what do we do about it? How did the people get the province to get rid of Photo Radar? How do we, the people, not just motorcycle riders, get speed limits changed?
You grab a can of black spraypaint and insert a "1" on each speed limit sign you see.

Now we are talking!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Very interesting but...what do we do about it? How did the people get the province to get rid of Photo Radar? How do we, the people, not just motorcycle riders, get speed limits changed?
You can start by joining our group www.sense.bc.ca which doesn't cost you anything.

We created the discourse, fed the media, and educated the BC Liberals, which resulted in political opposition to photo radar and it's demise in 2001.

What's needed for a change in speed limits is a galvanizing event. Photo radar was one galvanizing event and many people said it could not be defeated... but it was ... once enough people got caught in the crosshairs and realized they too were targets.

Draconian punishment for marginally bad driving is another galvanizing event. 12,000 impounds so far for excessive speed, which might not... would not in many cases, be excessive if the limits were set correctly.

It's a good bet that many of these 12,000 people do not deserve to lose their vehicles. They all have friends and family. They need to know that not everybody believes what the government is doing is right and the politicians need to know that there is a political cost for being led around by their noses by senior bureaucrats who are featherbedding by trying to make us believe their jobs are important and that we need this for our safety. No better motivators than fear and greed afterall.

Several experiences on BC roads, including the one I wrote about recently, have convinced me that the next galvanizing event is around the corner. Actually, driving recently tells me it's already here. The majority of drivers are disobeying the law. You can discount support for our cause by removing the morally corrupt, who support the laws but habitually break them anyway, and you've still got a vast majority who are voting with their right feet and are fed up with the nonsense.

We have a Facebook Page as well and you can join the conversation there at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Safety-by-Education-Not-Speed-Enforcement-SENSE/122865007769507?ref=ts
 
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