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Discussion Starter #1
Few people enjoy listening to loud bikes (not even me oddly) so one of the big reasons that I fought an uphill battle in Supreme court was prejudice against the proverbial loud Harley. Notwithstanding that fact, hopefully nobody advocates the practice of arbitrary charges and the creation of objective evidence that's not relevant to the charge.

Some of you have rightly observed I embarassed myself fighting the charge. I didn't fight the charge to save money, I fought it because I was charged for something I did not do (noisy operation) and the charge carries penalty points that I believe (and so should you) should be reserved for risk related vehicle operation. I did not get charged for loud pipes, rather noisy operation... there's a difference. For the record, I don't care about the money. It cost me a hell of a lot more than the fine to fight the charge.

I called the media because I felt the subject of OSMV appointed adjudicators, which are about to replace our traffic courts for disputes, should be questioned, particularly in light of the fact that police officers are today more than ever in a position of power with low burden of proof for evidence in justifying charges under the motor vehicle act. This cop, who's received a Chief's commendation for evidence gathering, who knew better ... corroborated his flimsy subjective evidence with useless and misleading objective evidence that he created. It took an immense amount of work to expose him.

Silly me, I miscalculated and thought the media might be interested in rogue cops, especially if we are about to eliminate traffic courts and become even more reliant on police integrity.

However, unfortunately the reporter sent to cover the story was not a court reporter and initially required a review in how Supreme Court worked (five minutes before my court appearance). So a weak story emerged online two hours later that completely missed the point. Subsequently, one of the senior editors at The Province, who has a hate on for loud bikes, saw the story, made some assumptions and voila ... I became the poster boy for the two days of editorials and letters that ensued.

For those of you that think I should have been swift enough to control what the reporter scribbled or wrote.... sorry I am just not that good.

Adele at BCCOM is right, I don't do things to save my ass, I do them because they are the right thing to do. Correct it the first time properly, and nobody has to deal with it afterward. If everybody did just that, we would not have to deal with the terrible legislation that Victoria now heaps upon us ... which they know they can do because people take the easier route more often than not.

Thanks Adele, for standing up for riders, what's right, and for putting a good word in for me.

By the way, if you are naive enough to believe everything you read in the tabloid media or that interviewees have any control over what reporters write or editors produce, you need to go back to school.

For anyone interested, I've published a follow up to the Supreme Court dismissal here .
 

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can't decide
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soo... you had an illegal, super loud pipe on your bike... or is that not true?

and then you tried fighting it... because you weren't revving it loudly?

...
 

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Lee RideFar
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I doubt you will get any sympathy on this board for your fight. You did take the fight farther than 99.9% of motorcyclists would have which is impressive. You couldn't have picked a worse issue to fight though. Loud pipes have no business in the city and all reasons for loud pipes are easily defeated.

Take your motorcycle outside of the city limits and enjoy where it was meant to be enjoyed. Just think about all the great motorcycle trips you could have taken with the time and money you just wasted.
 

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From your version of events, court seemed to dismiss your evidence with undue care.

However, I wish I could push every cruiser I hear with straight-pipes off of a cliff. So I'm not overly saddened that there was enforcement.
 

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I don't mind loud bikes... but If there is one vehicle I wish they would turn the volume down on it's all the Police cars that race by my bedroom window EVERY night of the week at 3am, lights on, sirens blaring, driving at wayyyyy over the speed limit with hardly any other vehicles on the road at the time. Go ahead and put the lights on, just no need to blast your sirens through an area filled with houses. Rant over.
 

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Fastronaut
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So we had the motorcycle parking gig. A swing and a miss.

Then we went out with some aftermarket pipes on a Harley and rode around the one place in the city where you can be pretty well sure the cops will tag you. Another strike though.

The next thing I would expect to see is a ticket for a non-DOT helmet.

Disappoint me and get dinged for riding that Ducati in your press photo while standing on the pegs. You'll get waves of support here on that journey.
 

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For the record, I love loud pipes. I don't understand why people get such a hate-on for that lovely petrol gargling thrum, and a good pop and fart from a rich mix.

Christ, that's character!

I don't ride a bike because I want to fit in, I embrace the fact i stand out.

I think it sad that even amongst riders we're supporting the same prejudices that non-riders spread. I mean today, on a beautiful day I saw 2 harleys on the road. That's IT. WTF, everyone should be bikes on days like today. I just wish people would embrace the bike. ENCOURAGE other people to be on a bike and don't give in to this harassment.

If you want quiet, uninteresting, vanilla just wait for the next generation of underpowered pussy electric bikes. Yeah man, those will be great:banghead

As for the OP. Good on ya man. Every day we move closer to a nanny-police state where every action is judged by someone who doesn't have a fucking clue. Too bad it's been perpetuated so long that nearly no-one can distinguish between the big picture and their own small dismal world.
 

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Just exactly how do you "stand out"?

You love loud pipes... good on you. I love them too... I just don't love hearing every obnoxious pirate clown on a screaming eagle straighpipe bagger taking off from a light and making more noise than a jumbo jet. Enough already.

It does nothing but disturb the space around them to a degree that is unreasonable. The stock bike sounds nice as it is.

I love the sound of a Harley straight from the factory. It's very nice to listen to.

When you can hear it 500 meters away screaming like mad, it's really nothing more than noise pollution.
 

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Is it possible to own a gun and not use it to commit murder, rob banks, threaten others, and what else convicted criminals do with guns.

Just because there are some out there that commit crimes with guns, should we ban all guns.

I believe what the O.P is saying is that although he has loud pipes, there is no proof that he is one of the perpetrators the relevant loud pipe laws intended to target.

If they can ban loud pipes, they can easily ban sport bikes, or all guns following the same logic.

There certainly are those who do go out of the way to disturb the peace, but then there are also those that don't.

They really need something equivalent to a radar gun to catch the perpetrators. If we instead go out and catch those while they are committing the act, then we don't need to ban nearly everything.

Just saying.
 

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Interesting post.
Having dealt with the media for years the old saying of "don't let the facts get in the way of a good story" is quite true. Anyone that deals with the media should be properly trained to ensure that every effort is made to get your message out, its not a game for amateurs and your experience is one that has been shared by many. Your story would be a tough one even for someone that is skilled because the media is very bias against loud motorcycles. Unfortunately most folks really dislike loud anything and there is justifiable reasons for this. Even the aircraft industry had to design quieter aircraft and the pilots reduce power when flying over cities because people started hating airports. If an industry as large and as important as aviation has been forced to reduce noise what process goes through a persons mind when they feel vilolated because someone doesn't like their Harley with straight pipes. If you used your bike on road trips and stayed out of cities then few people would care how much noise you made but most of the cruiser crowd rides locally and wants to be noticed by others hence the loud pipes. If the motorcycle owners don't have the self discipline and courtesy to respect other peoples rights to a reasonably quiet surrounding then it will just be a matter of time and everyone will be riding bikes that sound like Honda Civics. I'll give you a few points for posting on this forum.
 

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Is it possible to own a gun and not use it to commit murder, rob banks, threaten others, and what else convicted criminals do with guns.

Just because there are some out there that commit crimes with guns, should we ban all guns.

I believe what the O.P is saying is that although he has loud pipes, there is no proof that he is one of the perpetrators the relevant loud pipe laws intended to target.

If they can ban loud pipes, they can easily ban sport bikes, or all guns following the same logic..
This logic is known as the slippery slope fallacy, it really doesn't hold up.

They have DB measuring tools - you'll seem at White Rock beach in the summer issuing warnings and citations. Those with pipes restore them to stock, go get them certified, and then modify them all over again.
 

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Sedate hooligan
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The Province. Pffft! lol
Did I hear that the police were using their own sound-measuring devices, not one issued to them? If so, that establishes a dangerous precedent.
I owned a bike with a pipe loud enough to set off alarms, but I always took care to ride with some kind of decorum in built up areas. A lot of riders don't.
 

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As I type this, some joker goes down Lougheed Highway, 2 blocks from my house... and I can tell it's a Harley with straight pipes.

Completely obnoxious. Car noise, minimal. Other bikes, minimal. Harley with open pipes... shit, I can still hear him as he just left the next traffic light.

Everyone else blends in. They harley douche, sticks out as he goes by, and while he blocks away.
 

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It is easy to just pull out from a list of argument fallacies and put it in a post.

Can you elaborate on the logic I was implying?
You essentially stated that once they ban one thing, they'll reach for the next, and the next, and the next. Hence the fallacy. If that were the case guns would be illegal, the long-gun registry would be in full effect rather than scrapped etc. (this is just following off your gun comments).

The fact of the matter is - we can still purchase bikes with near unlimited power. When the government starts limiting the HP on a bike, or the CC size, then you can claim that it's only a matter of time before the bikes themselves are banned as that directly relates to the issues you brought up. Pipes are entirely different.

This issue was about noise complaints due to the idiotic way people with loud pipes ride them in cities. The *people* are the ones who complained and the government listened. That is how a democracy is supposed to work. Generally speaking the only people who want loud pipes legal are those who use and abuse them.
 

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d
It is easy to just pull out from a list of argument fallacies and put it in a post.

Can you elaborate on the logic I was implying?
You can say whatever you like.

Someone can have an obnoxious bike and ride it around quietly, we get that. They can all argue that despite their bike has the capacity to be loud, it was not being ridden in that manner.

Apparently an argument that should stand up without prosecution in your world. Are we going to tie up the process in a he said she said because you claim that while it's possible, it wasn't how it was operated?

This guy was given a ticket because he was making too much noise. Who gives a shit about the technical babble about this or that... we can all claim we had a bike capable of making noise and not riding it that way.

You don't want the hassle... keep the fucking straight pipes off your harley. Simple fucking solution to your issues and troubles.

I've never heard of someone on a harley with a stock exhaust system being ticketed for a noise violation. EVER.

And again as I type, some pirate boffo goes down the highway making more noise than anything else, by a wide margin.

Harley guys are the worst offenders. I think they are all heading to Maple Ridge, home of the white trash! LOL.

Oh wait, there goes a sportbike... I think it's a 600.

All night long, bikes making crazy amounts of noise. Another Harley. Same story.
 

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Fastronaut
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If they can ban loud pipes, they can easily ban sport bikes, or all guns following the same logic.
Loud pipes are already de facto banned.

Slippery slope means you start out with event A, and extrapolate that after that B, C, D, etc. must follow until the predetermined event Z is inevitable and inescapable.

The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at
hand, and instead shifts attention to baseless extreme hypothetical threats. The merits
of the original argument are then tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture


Let's bring on more new members/low posters in this thread though to support Ian; I would suppose it is mere coincidence they have selected this thread to join the site's discourse.
 

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Loud pipe sure saves lives somewhere on the open road except in in the middle of a concrete forest where the sound waves has nowhere to go and especially not praised in any sleepy retirement communities when rider comes home after midnight. Throw in hard of hearing risks, this individual freedom/liberty becomes a hazard to the public. It would work if that sound can be switched on/off at will.
 

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If you hate noisy bikes, and don't want to be harassed by the police using their reasonable judgement in order to keep the peace, why for the love of god did you put an aftermarket pipe on your Harley? Did you think the rules regarding noise and emissions didn't apply to you?

The worst part about this, is now there's a binding precedent allowing every LEO in BC to pull all of us over, issue a self assessed noise ticket, and there's no defense to it anymore. Good way to pick your battles.

Were you a self represented litigant, or do you have a lawyer to blame for the way this was handled?
 
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