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Discussion Starter #221 (Edited)
However, I wonder what the SOP is for an officer to cite someone for "stunting" or "squeeling the tires" at the light. Do they need corroboration on their observation?
It's a subjective observation easily qualified and quantified. For instance, and not limited to, a photo to prove the "squealer" left a tire mark on the road. There are lots of ways to qualify an accusation.

In my case I asked FIVE times in court for Bercic to qualify and quantify his subjective evidence however I was shut down by the JP (who clearly didn't get where this was going) who told me "that's not what you've been charged with" and "not relevant", when I asked. All he (Bercic) had to say was that he "heard a loud exhaust" and that it "sounded twice as loud as stock".

I notice in Kelowna they have been discussing ditching the noise bylaw in favour of a provincial testing standard (similar to what the VPD say Bercic should have been using). Interesting. I am all for it.
 

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I am in the process of trying to quiet my bike down a bike just so I don't have to deal with this bullshit. That said I'd be pretty ticked if this situation happened to me.
My bike is definetly too loud if I rev it up. Not obscene loud, but Yosh RS3 loud. But if I keep the revs low, its pretty reasonable. And that is exactly how I ride it in town.

If I got pulled over, and then ordered to rev it up to an rpm I don't use in town, and then given a ticket, I'd feel pretty miffed... hopefully that day doesn't arrive before my parts do.
 

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Tootil was asked to rev the bike within the normal range he rode it by his own admission.
I am in the process of trying to quiet my bike down a bike just so I don't have to deal with this bullshit. That said I'd be pretty ticked if this situation happened to me.
My bike is definetly too loud if I rev it up. Not obscene loud, but Yosh RS3 loud. But if I keep the revs low, its pretty reasonable. And that is exactly how I ride it in town.

If I got pulled over, and then ordered to rev it up to an rpm I don't use in town, and then given a ticket, I'd feel pretty miffed... hopefully that day doesn't arrive before my parts do.
 

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It's a subjective observation easily qualified and quantified. For instance, and not limited to, a photo to prove the "squealer" left a tire mark on the road. There are lots of ways to qualify an accusation.

In my case I asked FIVE times in court for Bercic to qualify and quantify his bullshit subjective evidence and was shut down by the JP (who clearly didn't get where this was going) who told me "that's not what you've been charged with" and "not relevant" when I asked. All he had to say was that he "heard a loud exhaust" and that it "sounded twice as loud as stock".

I notice in Kelowna they have been discussing ditching the noise bylaw in favour of a provincial testing standard (similar to what the VPD say Bercic should have been using). Interesting. I am all for it.
BCCOM wll be looking at a "noise snare" system so that all vehicles will be accountable provincially. It will make it impossible for police to " target" motorcycles only for noise.
 

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This may sound bitchy, but aren't there a shitload more important issues you could be getting behind than defending attention whores who want loud pipes for the "look at me" factor? This seems like a waste of resources and a direction that really doesn't make any sense to me. How is this making our roads safer for motorcyclists?
BCCOM wll be looking at a "noise snare" system so that all vehicles will be accountable provincially. It will make it impossible for police to " target" motorcycles only for noise.
 

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This may sound bitchy, but aren't there a shitload more important issues you could be getting behind than defending attention whores who want loud pipes for the "look at me" factor? This seems like a waste of resources and a direction that really doesn't make any sense to me. How is this making our roads safer for motorcyclists?
Are you a paying member of BCCOM?
 

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Why would I be when almost every discussion with Adele has been a disagreement? If they're representing motorcyclists, how is it not a valid question? Why would I become a member when I don't agree with the issues they've decided to fight?
Are you a paying member of BCCOM?
 

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BCCOM wll be looking at a "noise snare" system so that all vehicles will be accountable provincially. It will make it impossible for police to " target" motorcycles only for noise.
So, let's toss another red herring into the mix and keep that rolling pirate ship of fools pissing off the general public for a few more years

Adele, how will BCCOM be looking at a noise snare system?

Is BCCOM going to buy one for $112,000 and then set it up and prove it doesn't work, or ask the lower mainland taxpayers to buy one and then watch thecourt system tie itself in knots for years while the device's accuracy is questioned and your members "freedom to ride" is "protected"

Here's a news flash, the police target MC's because the "Loud Pipes Saves Nothing" crowd are a pain in the ass, and a popular as a white headed zit on the face of a 15 year old girl. This group of under endowed attention whores make the general public despise motorcyclists more every day and BCCOM seems to have an unnatural attraction to supporting their antics.

Of course there is a reliable sound testing system avaialble already as outlined by SAE document J2825, "Measurement of Exhaust Sound Pressure Levels of Stationary On-Highway Motorcycles," meets the need for a practical, consistent roadside sound test. It is also endorsed by many legitimate MC organizations http://www.americanrider.com/output.cfm?id=2218195

It seemed that BCSB answered your questions on noise last year

http://www.bcsportbikes.com/forum/s...-or-a-bad-thing?highlight=SAE+document+J2825,


Let me share of my favorite quotes on loud pipes from Belt Drive Betty

Please ride safely - ONLY use your pipes where absolutely neccessary to prevent a crash, be a smart rider who is on the look out for dangerous situations - and remember SIPDE - Scan, Interpret, Predict, Decide and Execute - hone those survival skills - they are still your best defence in preventing a crash!


Belt Drive Betty
Editor & Rider
www.beltdrivebetty.com
www.bustedknucklechronicles.com

Let's see how the Calgary testing of the Noise Snare worked out

Inaugural Noise Snare shakedown much ado about nothing

BY MICHAEL PLATT ,CALGARY SUN
FIRST POSTED: WEDNESDAY, JUNE 20, 2012

The modified pickup truck roars past, forcing those at the roadside to shout to be heard — but it isn’t loud enough.

A growling Italian V-twin motorcycle, exhaust pipes only a matter of metres from the bylaw department microphone, doesn’t come close to setting the Noise Snare off.

As loud as the traffic is — and it’s thunderous at times — it remains a very quiet afternoon for tickets along Calgary’s Ogden Road.

Wednesday marked the official launch of Calgary’s new Noise Snare sound-measuring device, and over the inaugural hour of monitoring a noisy rush-hour road, not a single vehicle managed to break the law.

They’re actually just warnings for the first month, before bylaw starts to issue $200 fines for anyone breaking Calgary’s legal sound barrier of 96 decibels.

But zero tickets? That speaks volumes.

“Nothing’s gone over — in the hour I’ve been out, the loudest vehicle that’s come through was a car at 93 decibels,” said bylaw officer Martin Tornberg.

The Noise Snare is a device criticised as heavy-handed and unfair, for forcing people to muffle their motorized monstrosities — yet on a noisy road like this, full of really loud vehicles, it fails to register.

They say a landing DC-8 makes around 96 dB, but until you stand within arm’s reach of rush hour traffic, listening for really annoying vehicles, you don’t get how ridiculously loud 96 dB must be.

As cars, trucks and bikes shake the asphalt on Ogden Road and rattle nearby eardrums, you fully expect Tornberg to tell you the barrier has been broken — but no.

“Basically, we have a threshold level of 96 decibels set up on the Noise Snare device,” said Tornberg.

“I’m after anybody who has a noisy vehicle — it could be a car, a truck, a motorcycle, anything.”

It will have to be a vehicle driven by someone incredibly obnoxious and/or self-centered — because no normal person could emit anything close to 96dB from their tail pipe without feeling vast guilt and shame.

This clearly isn’t a nanny-state move to silence any vehicle making more engine flatulence than a typical Smart Car, as some with modified exhaust pipes like to claim.

To actually understand how loud 96 dB is, is to grasp just how brainless you’d have to be to purposely modify or operate any vehicle to make that level of racket.

In fact, it was one such jerk who helped bring the Noise Snare to life.

“He went whipping by in first gear, at 10,000 rpm, the bike screaming the whole way, and he woke up my six-month-old daughter,” said Mark Nesdoly, an electrical engineer from Edmonton.

“My first thought was violence, but I knew I couldn’t do much from behind prison bars. The I started thinking, ‘you never hear of anyone getting tickets.’”

That’s because there was no reliable way to measure motorcycle noise, leading Calgary Police Chief Rick Hanson to admit in 2008 that the existing noise law was too difficult to enforce.

And so Nesdoly invented the Noise Snare, and after independent testing it’s now officially in the arsenal of Calgary bylaw and being considered for use by police forces across Canada.

It works like photo radar, mounted in an unmarked vehicle, recording sound and licences of violators as they pass.

Public testing of the snare at an open session last month showed 47% of the 469 vehicles registered a fail — but as Tornberg points out, those were people who showed up fully expecting to be too loud.

After the first official day on the road, it seems the average Calgary road user has nothing to worry about from the Noise Snare.

And that, says Ald. John Mar, was the point when he started pushing for the sound law three years ago.

“It’s a big community, and we all need to learn to play together — and if you’re deliberately making a vehicle louder to the detriment of the community, we’re going to enforce the law,” said Mar.

“Now we have a tool to do just that.”

[email protected]
 

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Thanks Bill, you made my point in a far more detailed post. Totally agree. Lane splitting is a valid topic, defending loud pipes on a bike? Not valid.
 

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then join BCCOM and bring it up at their meetings.

They are a membership driven organization. If most of the members are the harley screaming beagle crowd.. then guess what. They are going to go after noise and helmet regulations.

Stop bitching about BCCOM not doing anything for you. They dont owe you anything.
 

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This may sound bitchy, but aren't there a shitload more important issues you could be getting behind than defending attention whores who want loud pipes for the "look at me" factor? This seems like a waste of resources and a direction that really doesn't make any sense to me. How is this making our roads safer for motorcyclists?
BCCOM is working on many issues, diversity in membership.
 

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So if I'm a prospective member, looking at what they deem important, I can't question it, instead I'm supposed to give them my money and then ask and see if they'll address it? I don't know many businesses that would succeed with that model. I also don't know many people who would join an organization that speaks for them and hand them money while watching them go after issues they don't think are important.
then join BCCOM and bring it up at their meetings.

They are a membership driven organization. If most of the members are the harley screaming beagle crowd.. then guess what. They are going to go after noise and helmet regulations.

Stop bitching about BCCOM not doing anything for you. They dont owe you anything.
 

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then join BCCOM and bring it up at their meetings.
Sorry, I don't belong to or support organizations who do not provide:

full financial disclosure of where their funding comes from,

a complete listing of the executives and Advisory Board Members, and

publicly available annual reports

Here is an example to make it clear

http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/about

They are a membership driven organization. If most of the members are the harley screaming beagle crowd.. then guess what. They are going to go after noise and helmet regulations.
How do you know that their membership is made up of mostly the " harley screaming beagle crowd" or even how many members they have?

Stop bitching about BCCOM not doing anything for you. They dont owe you anything.
I agree BCCOM doesn't owe me or anyone else, including perhaps their dues paying members, anything.

That doesn't mean that when BCCOM posts on a public motorcycle forum that their posts can't be questioned, challenged or even ridiculed.
 

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So, let's toss another red herring into the mix and keep that rolling pirate ship of fools pissing off the general public for a few more years

Adele, how will BCCOM be looking at a noise snare system?

Is BCCOM going to buy one for $112,000 and then set it up and prove it doesn't work, or ask the lower mainland taxpayers to buy one and then watch thecourt system tie itself in knots for years while the device's accuracy is questioned and your members "freedom to ride" is "protected"

Here's a news flash, the police target MC's because the "Loud Pipes Saves Nothing" crowd are a pain in the ass, and a popular as a white headed zit on the face of a 15 year old girl. This group of under endowed attention whores make the general public despise motorcyclists more every day and BCCOM seems to have an unnatural attraction to supporting their antics.

Of course there is a reliable sound testing system avaialble already as outlined by SAE document J2825, "Measurement of Exhaust Sound Pressure Levels of Stationary On-Highway Motorcycles," meets the need for a practical, consistent roadside sound test. It is also endorsed by many legitimate MC organizations http://www.americanrider.com/output.cfm?id=2218195

It seemed that BCSB answered your questions on noise last year

http://www.bcsportbikes.com/forum/s...-or-a-bad-thing?highlight=SAE+document+J2825,


Let me share of my favorite quotes on loud pipes from Belt Drive Betty

Please ride safely - ONLY use your pipes where absolutely neccessary to prevent a crash, be a smart rider who is on the look out for dangerous situations - and remember SIPDE - Scan, Interpret, Predict, Decide and Execute - hone those survival skills - they are still your best defence in preventing a crash!


Belt Drive Betty
Editor & Rider
www.beltdrivebetty.com
www.bustedknucklechronicles.com

Let's see how the Calgary testing of the Noise Snare worked out

Inaugural Noise Snare shakedown much ado about nothing

BY MICHAEL PLATT ,CALGARY SUN
FIRST POSTED: WEDNESDAY, JUNE 20, 2012

The modified pickup truck roars past, forcing those at the roadside to shout to be heard — but it isn’t loud enough.

A growling Italian V-twin motorcycle, exhaust pipes only a matter of metres from the bylaw department microphone, doesn’t come close to setting the Noise Snare off.

As loud as the traffic is — and it’s thunderous at times — it remains a very quiet afternoon for tickets along Calgary’s Ogden Road.

Wednesday marked the official launch of Calgary’s new Noise Snare sound-measuring device, and over the inaugural hour of monitoring a noisy rush-hour road, not a single vehicle managed to break the law.

They’re actually just warnings for the first month, before bylaw starts to issue $200 fines for anyone breaking Calgary’s legal sound barrier of 96 decibels.

But zero tickets? That speaks volumes.

“Nothing’s gone over — in the hour I’ve been out, the loudest vehicle that’s come through was a car at 93 decibels,” said bylaw officer Martin Tornberg.

The Noise Snare is a device criticised as heavy-handed and unfair, for forcing people to muffle their motorized monstrosities — yet on a noisy road like this, full of really loud vehicles, it fails to register.

They say a landing DC-8 makes around 96 dB, but until you stand within arm’s reach of rush hour traffic, listening for really annoying vehicles, you don’t get how ridiculously loud 96 dB must be.

As cars, trucks and bikes shake the asphalt on Ogden Road and rattle nearby eardrums, you fully expect Tornberg to tell you the barrier has been broken — but no.

“Basically, we have a threshold level of 96 decibels set up on the Noise Snare device,” said Tornberg.

“I’m after anybody who has a noisy vehicle — it could be a car, a truck, a motorcycle, anything.”

It will have to be a vehicle driven by someone incredibly obnoxious and/or self-centered — because no normal person could emit anything close to 96dB from their tail pipe without feeling vast guilt and shame.

This clearly isn’t a nanny-state move to silence any vehicle making more engine flatulence than a typical Smart Car, as some with modified exhaust pipes like to claim.

To actually understand how loud 96 dB is, is to grasp just how brainless you’d have to be to purposely modify or operate any vehicle to make that level of racket.

In fact, it was one such jerk who helped bring the Noise Snare to life.

“He went whipping by in first gear, at 10,000 rpm, the bike screaming the whole way, and he woke up my six-month-old daughter,” said Mark Nesdoly, an electrical engineer from Edmonton.

“My first thought was violence, but I knew I couldn’t do much from behind prison bars. The I started thinking, ‘you never hear of anyone getting tickets.’”

That’s because there was no reliable way to measure motorcycle noise, leading Calgary Police Chief Rick Hanson to admit in 2008 that the existing noise law was too difficult to enforce.

And so Nesdoly invented the Noise Snare, and after independent testing it’s now officially in the arsenal of Calgary bylaw and being considered for use by police forces across Canada.

It works like photo radar, mounted in an unmarked vehicle, recording sound and licences of violators as they pass.

Public testing of the snare at an open session last month showed 47% of the 469 vehicles registered a fail — but as Tornberg points out, those were people who showed up fully expecting to be too loud.

After the first official day on the road, it seems the average Calgary road user has nothing to worry about from the Noise Snare.

And that, says Ald. John Mar, was the point when he started pushing for the sound law three years ago.

“It’s a big community, and we all need to learn to play together — and if you’re deliberately making a vehicle louder to the detriment of the community, we’re going to enforce the law,” said Mar.

“Now we have a tool to do just that.”

[email protected]
Actually there are many problems coming out with the J2825. The issue of a provincial testing system has just been brought up to me by the Ministry of Transportation and am looking at several methods. There are large costs involved in either method which will be born by the province or perhaps the municipality where they want testing.
 

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Sorry, I don't belong to or support organizations who do not provide:

full financial disclosure of where their funding comes from,

a complete listing of the executives and Advisory Board Members, and

publicly available annual reports

Here is an example to make it clear

http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/about


How do you know that their membership is made up of mostly the " harley screaming beagle crowd" or even how many members they have?


I agree BCCOM doesn't owe me or anyone else, including perhaps their dues paying members, anything.

That doesn't mean that when BCCOM posts on a public motorcycle forum that their posts can't be questioned, challenged or even ridiculed.
Totally agree Bill. +1
 

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Sorry, I don't belong to or support organizations who do not provide:

full financial disclosure of where their funding comes from,

a complete listing of the executives and Advisory Board Members, and

publicly available annual reports

Here is an example to make it clear

http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/about



How do you know that their membership is made up of mostly the " harley screaming beagle crowd" or even how many members they have?



I agree BCCOM doesn't owe me or anyone else, including perhaps their dues paying members, anything.

That doesn't mean that when BCCOM posts on a public motorcycle forum that their posts can't be questioned, challenged or even ridiculed.
Oh Bill those questions have been asked and answered, you just don't like the answers.
 

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Oh Bill those questions have been asked and answered, you just don't like the answers.
The answers are usually "we're only responsible to discuss those things with our members".

If BCCOM was truly open you'd have those things up on your website somewhere like most professional advocacy groups do.

You could, of course, choose to answer them here or tell us where the information is available. But you never seem to want to do that......
 

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The answers are usually "we're only responsible to discuss those things with our members".

If BCCOM was truly open you'd have those things up on your website somewhere like most professional advocacy groups do.

You could, of course, choose to answer them here or tell us where the information is available. But you never seem to want to do that......
It is on AVD rider where I answered Bill for yet another time.
 
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