BC Sport Bikes Forum banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,021 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Connected to this video? (news report on stunting/speeding)

Found this story interesting. . . .

By The Associated Press
Thursday, December 7, 2006 10:05 AM EST
SYRACUSE - A 21-year-old man was convicted Wednesday of driving a motorcycle at more than 100 mph and leading a state trooper on a chase that ended with the trooper crashing into a tree and dying.

An Onondaga County Court jury deliberated 9.5 hours to find James Carncross guilty of aggravated criminally negligent homicide and reckless driving in the death of Trooper Craig Todeschini.

Carncross was acquitted of aggravated second-degree manslaughter.

Judge William Walsh scheduled sentencing for Jan. 10. Carncross faces a possible sentence of five to 20 years.

The criminally negligent homicide charged required jurors to determine that Carncross failed to perceive the risk of his conduct in causing the death of a law enforcement officer. To convict Carncross of aggravated manslaughter, the jury had to find that he consciously disregarded the risk of his conduct.

Carncross showed no emotion as the jury foreman announced the verdicts. Both families sat stoically as well, following the judge's request that they refrain from any emotional outbursts in front of the jury. After jurors were dismissed, the Carncross family stood quietly consoling one another. Todeschini's widow, his parents and other family members hugged in silent celebration.
“There are no winners in this case,” defense attorney Salvatore Piemonte said outside the courtroom. “The circumstances are tragic all the way around.”

Todeschini, 25, of Geddes, was killed April 23 when he crashed his patrol sport utility vehicle into a tree in the hamlet of Pompey Hill as he was rounding a curve in pursuit of a sport-style motorcycle about 15 miles south of Syracuse. Todeschini was one of three state troopers to die this year in the line of duty.

According to testimony in the six-day trial, both vehicles were traveling nearly 100 mph during the seven-mile chase over a hilly, winding two-lane country highway. It was estimated that Todeschini hit the tree at between 49 and 55 mph.

“Hopefully, we can have this behind us now. Someone was responsible here and the jury has spoken,” said James Todeschini, the victim's father.
District Attorney William Fitzpatrick said the verdict “reaffirms the memory of an outstanding young man.”

“The defendant is the one who started this course of conduct. He is the one who lead Trooper Todeschini into a death trap,” Fitzpatrick said.

The jury of eight men and four women rejected Piemonte's arguments that Todeschini was to blame for his own death because he was driving recklessly and failed to follow proper state police pursuit policy.

Piemonte argued that Todeschini should have broken off the chase, and could have at any time. Todeschini put the public at risk as well as himself by driving the SUV too fast for conditions with no reasonable chance of catching the faster, more maneuverable motorcycle, and for what amounted to a traffic infraction, Piemonte said.

“This is a tragedy, but it could have been avoided,” he said during closing arguments. “It was Trooper Todeschini's foot on the gas pedal. It was Trooper Todeschini's hands on the wheel.”

Piemonte said the family already has directed him to appeal the verdict.

“He is basically a decent kid. He made a great mistake, and made a grave decision, a split-second decision. The consequences were not what anyone expected, what no one wanted to happen,” Piemonte said.

During his closing remarks, Fitzpatrick said Todeschini would have been negligent if he had not pursued the speeding motorcycle. The prosecutor said the motorcyclist could have ended the chase at any time by simply pulling over. He said there was a direct relationship between Carncross' actions and Todeschini's death.

Fitzpatrick also reminded jurors that in a signed statement, Carncross acknowledged that he knew the trooper was after him: “My intention was to make it back to my house without getting caught by the trooper.”

Carncross is already serving a prison sentence of 1 1/3 to four years for violating probation in an earlier grand larceny case. In that case, Carncross admitted he was on a motorcycle April 23, but denied any involvement in Todeschini's death.

As a result of Todeschini's death, state lawmakers passed a law creating a new felony crime for refusing to obey police directions to stop and recklessly fleeing in a motor vehicle where such action results in the injury or death of another.
 

·
One Lump Sum
Joined
·
605 Posts
What a load of shit, idiot shouldn't have even tried taking down a bike in the first place. Pure stupidity on the cops part. An SUV vs a sport bike, hmmm I'm pretty sure the SUV isn't gonna get far with that one, what a no brainer. That guy doesn't deserve jail time, the cop was an idiot and a shitty driver...
 
G

·
fuk almost impossible to side with the cop on this one .

he chased ,he crashed ,risks of the job .The guy should be charged with what he did ,for traffic violations,evading all that .... if he hit someone like an innocent person or smashed some cars bury the guy .But serious ? jail time for an avoidable chase ?


“The defendant is the one who started this course of conduct. He is the one who lead Trooper Todeschini into a death trap,” Fitzpatrick said.


nope 100% disagree with that verdict .

so if im robbing a store and a cop pulls his gun and it richochets off the wall and kills him ,,thats my fault ?


.no innocent parties in the whole matter is what i see.


.
 
G

·
the video? yeah, inside edition is such a credible news source. i laughed when the reporter said a bike will blow by traffic at 200 mph.

the news article, on the other hand... the last few paragraphs sums it up nicely. the cop could have broken off pursuit. he was not in a high performance pursuit vehicle. the rider, he could have stopped and owned up.

both are to blame, and neither are to blame.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,578 Posts
:cool

Tough call. I'd have to side with the rider in this case (with no disrespect intended to the victim & his family). Though I'm in favor of laws & public policy ensuring the protection of people, property and "the public good", it's pretty clear both the officer AND the rider were simultaneously breaking all the laws designed to keep them both alive. In such a predicament, I don't think it unreasonable to expect that it should have been the police officer to be the wiser of the two ...and break off the chase. In choosing otherwise -keeping his foot on the pedal- he needlessly risked his life to catch an idiot on a bike.

Apart from the above, it's noteworthy that both parties were young males. So, beneath the surface of officer/assailant picture, maybe there were equal levels of testosterone at work, keeping the pedal down and the throttle wide-open. [?] If so, niether man was about to 'lose the race'... yet an experienced officer would have known not to race in the first place. I believe this will be the arguable point when the rider appeals his sentence.

To be clear, I do hope the rider's sentenced for his actual crime of fleeing & causing a danger to the public... but not for what seems to amount to murder or manslaughter.

My 2kms...


Note:

In the spirit of disclosure, I ought note that most of my family works in the "peace business" (in Nova Scotia). Back home I'm surrounded by Police Officers, Corrections Officers & Armed Forces Security personnel bearing my last name... which is why I ride here. :D
:coffee
 

·
Mortgage Pimp
Joined
·
9,195 Posts
Considering the fact that convicted murders and rapists get off with basically dick all for punishment, I think it's pretty stupid that a speeding motorcycle gets the book thrown at him.
 

·
Mortgage Pimp
Joined
·
9,195 Posts
Ahhh after reading the bottom and seeing as he's already a convicted felon, maybe this is just a way to keep a piece of shit in jail.
 

·
One Lump Sum
Joined
·
605 Posts
Haha, the only thing I've ever had a talking to from the mods about is in your sig line. PWND

Back on topic...5 to 20 years in prison for speeding? I am never living in Yankeeland.
 

·
Crotch Rocket Scientist
Joined
·
929 Posts
Canadian courts don't refer to US courts for precedents.

He didn't kill the cop. He is an idiot though.

Another example of this is a motorist in a car being lit up for speeding and pulling onto the shoulder - when the cop pulls up behind him, his heavier SUV rolls over on the soft, wet shoulder, drowning him in the deep ditch.

According to this precedent that car driver is guilty of manslaughter for luring the cop into a death trap of the soft shoulder.

Fucking laughable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,887 Posts
Yeah...the cop fucked up...shitty deal. Feel bad for the family. But it is ALL the cops fault. Cops that don't use their brains in the line of duty don't last long=Darwin theory...

However I see where this is going. It is going to get to the point where it will be the runner's fault if they are running and a cop hurts themselves chasing. It will be more of a deterant to people who want to run...
 

·
Got Hammer?
Joined
·
5,552 Posts
Considering that law enforcement officers are given a greater sense of judgement than the lay public with regards to motor vehicles, I find it difficult to understand that the person he's chasing can be found responsible for his crash. He may be guilty of all charges associated with the chase but not the death of the officer as far as I'm concered.
 
G

·
Tough problem.
Definately, the cop should have had the judgement to stop before things got stupid and obviously, chasing them does not work. Then, when they stop them, saying someone saw you being an ass, they are accused of harassment.
I'm defiinately not a fan of folks stunting on the streets but chasing them is not the way to enforce the law.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
I find that court case a bloody joke, how anyone could be that stupid I dont know.
I could see him being partially at fault if he suddenly stopped around the corner and the cop drove off the road to avoid hitting and killing him, but the fact remains that the police officer is 100% at fault for this one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
In '95 or '96, a Mountie clocked me at 120 in 100 kph zone, turned around, and gave chase. I was oblivious, and turned off the highway into the little town of Three Hills (Alberta). He failed to make the corner, skidding out into the ditch and nearly crashing into the 'Welcome to Three Hills' sign. Meanwhile, I stopped in town to wait for several friends at a coffee shop (they saw what happened from behind). Cop got back on the road, found me, and issued my ticket. He was furious, but at no point did he suggest I was to blame for his overexcited exit from the roadway.

While it's very sad what happened to the police officer, what if the guy on the bike hadn't known he was being pursued? Would he still have been leading the cop into a 'death trap'? Absurd.

It's like the 'predatory riders' thing again. The person following is on their own, whatever the person ahead is doing.
 

·
BRRAAP!
Joined
·
219 Posts
I wonder, if the biker drove of the road, and died would the popo be responsable for the bikers death? I guess the biker would be at fault then ,because he was running.Doesnt matter anyway its all society.And society teaches us that the majority rules,dosent matter what the topic is.As long as more people believe one thing ...the opposit thing is wrong.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
569 Posts
Young testosterone filled cop driving beyond his abilities in violation of established chase policy. If he survived I hope he would have been charged with dangerous driving.

Very scary situation for the rider to be involved with, cops crashing around them.

I'm going to shut up now before I get slapped by a certain cop loving moderator.

Maerry Christmas all!
 

·
SuperStyling
Joined
·
3,098 Posts
It should be a prerequisite that in order to become a police officer you must have been enrolled in physics 11. So many retards out there that don't understand how easily an SUV can roll over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
799 Posts
This is a tough situation. It starts to become muddy when you consider the unique situation that 'traffic laws' can create. Most of us wouldn't walk into a store and hold it up with a gun, or beat the shit out of someone with a bat. We don't start houses on fire, or steal cars. But when it comes to laws concerning the maximum speed that we are allowed to travel on public roads, we have absolutely no qualms with not just breaking the law but completely flaunting our disregard for them.

Situations where a police officer tries to pull us over and we decide to make a run for it to avoid grotesquely unfair prosecution can result in a fatality like this did. Is the rider responsible for the officer's death? Of course not. But we are supposed to pull over for the police, no matter how much we may happen to disagree with the laws they are trying to enforce.

Personally I will never try to outrun the police, only because if I did get away I would be haunted by paranoia for so long that it would cause me more grief than whatever fines I would have incurred pulling over. Money is just money, and even losing your license for a time is no big deal compared to pushing your limits trying to escape and then crashing and probably dying.

The bottom line is that the moron cop lost control of his own vehicle and the system is beyond fucked up if the rider is being held responsible for what happened. What riders should be held responsible for is riding their bikes at 'tolerable' speeds and playing the game nicely to ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen. It could have been anyone that died, including an innocent bystander.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top