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I feel that it's worth tuning a vehicle once you get used to it after some miles. That keeps it fresh and interesting to drive/ride.
 

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nd I believe in the superiority of OEM tuning, apart from a PC-V for most bikes. But yours isn't most bikes. Low volume, high prices ..... it keeps most people out of the running. I would be very leery about any tuning mods to something that complicated.
thank you for at least posting a personal 'thought' or 'opinion' without reverting to an all blanket statement.. as each rider will have
a different set of expectations.. the problem here is, and i've tried to make this clear.. what you are considering OEM tuning, is very
very very far from the real thing!! What you are describing is pretty much dead on with what i've come to understand from most
riders, but sadly i dont think its built on actual facts, more fear than anything with a tiny bit of misunderstanding thrown in for kicks.

POINT IN FACT!!! IVAN'S PERFORMANCE came up with a PROPER fuel map for my Raider, one which would get MOST bikes within 5%
of proper tuning, but he expects the OEM ECU to make up the rest.. HE literally admited he knows 100% that is a bullshit approach
but if he told potential customers the TRUTH then he would have a hard time selling the work.. REALITY is every damn single bike
responds a little differnt to a tuning, or fuel job.. once you involve all this extra tinkering JUST so you can pass EPA, noise pollution
& safety parameters it gets exponentially worse. But then because i'm a technician, i have absolutely no problem picking up a phone
and calling the experts.. Most of these guys are very approachable and easy to talk to. they are the LEaders in their field for a reason.

in 2016 he flashed my 2014 Raider S with what he had, and it had a couple of glitches which i noticed right away, he found out
YAMAHA's original tuning / fueling / timing required an extra bit of code they NEVER considered because they figured nobody
would be able to come up with a reflash.. well, IVAN did just fine!! so fast forward to 2017 RAIDER release, which was THE LAST
year it came out, YAMAHA reportedly worked with IVAN DIRECTLY and sent over what they had, he looked things over and sure enough
fvcking with it he managed to get passed the code and voila, suddenly every damn RAIDER responds like a fvcking
dream and there are no more glitches period!! that to me spells YAMAHA as a manufacturer being BIG ENOUGH to admit
they are not the end all and be all in tuning, even if it was their own bike.. IT TOOK THEM 10 YEARS!! I called IVAN in 2018
and he instantly remembered working with me two years prior.. I HAVE A NEW FLASH FOR YOU!! FREE OF CHARGE!! i started
laughing and said, yes i' know i'm just calling to tell you i'm sending it over.. my ECU came back less than 3 days later and i never
looked back.. he also provided me with a PCV map from his work on the dyno for a 2011 Raider and i converted it to high
definition.. i now have all 5 gears tuned and the difference between this and the shitty OEM garbage is fvcking amazing.

yes, i tune my own bike with the help of AUTO-TUNE/ PC-V using the exact same procedure the DUCATI PIKES PEAK team uses on their bikes.. :D

it would not have been possible without IVAN.. who is he? oh hes just a TUNER, programmer! that is HIS field!! its what he does.
so what makes you think an EXPERT in his FIELD would not know how to tune a modern motorcycle? food for thought.. but then i'm a technician,
I work with complicated, integrated computer systems all the fvcking time and often the manufactuter has to pay good $ to have their software
worked over by the experts. I have spoken with mr Guhl himself a few times, hes a pretty damn smart dude and i can see why Brock
decided to go with his expertise for the SX and other H2 models. To your average public, this shit probably looks complicated as shit,
it most definitely is not the case for expert tuners around the world.. I trust them with my life.

another story? back in the day when ECUNLEASHED first came out, YAMAHA worked via GRAVEs known connections to come
up with a fuel programming method that would allow companies like ecuNleashed to reflash oem ecus with fuel maps which
are built from the ground up with exhaust manufacturers.. in order to tune their own exhaust.. who would you trust to tune
an AKRAPOVIC bike? certainly not an OEM manufacturer.. its still just a production model, not a race bike with a full support team
of engineers... the fuel map i have in my R1s ecu was built by LEO VINCE themselves!! its OUTSTANDING..
 

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I feel that it's worth tuning a vehicle once you get used to it after some miles. That keeps it fresh and interesting to drive/ride.
yep... i spoke about my experiences with ERIK b4 he purchased his ZX14R and he was not hearing me for the longest time..
kept swearing there was absolutely no point in adding an exhaust to it cause blah blah blah.. you could litgerally copy / paste any
of a thousand different excuses from this very forum, you name it, i heard them all. well.. at 3k kms after purchasing
brand new he added exhaust and had his ECU reflashed and tuned by NEls down in WA state.. never looked back.. SMART!

we just spoke of this during summer, he swears it was the best decision he ever made.. even bragged about it to my dad, who decided against any performance
work on his VTX 1800 (9 years ago).. fast forward to present and i dont go into what the big VTX1800 rides like.. it pales in comparison to a proper tune. is
HIGHLY restricted and dad is constantly blowing $$ out the door in gas as we cant seem to get the fueling down.. but then a PCV has its limitations..

dad regrets not having done the work. kinda sucks to see this in his face, and he's a life long mechanic. you'd think he would know better. :(

to me, it makes absolutely ZERO sense.. the SX H2 has a surper charger and makes less HP than the R1 which is naturally aspirated..

hell a 2005 GSXR-1000 makes the same HP with just a 3/4 system or something stupid.. why the fvck would an OEM manufacturer CHOP
off 50 to 80HP after spending MILLIONS researching and developing a super charger?? so the ZX14R makes more outright power out of the box? :rant
 

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Sorry to burst your bubble, but their Pikes Peaks bikes are tuned by Micah at AF1 in Austin on his dyno.
oh dude, its not a bubble.. i dont live in those terms.. back in the day work with 'some' of Pikes Peaks bikes for the ducati team were done
in Las Vegas with help of Dynojet Research's main warehouse, yes on the dyno.. no shit, but once back in Colorado they would use
a custom version of the Auto-Tune device which is used on the PC-V.. its a fvcking race team i fully understand there are
partnerships over time .

i dont follow it that closely, we were discussing the HYPERMOTARD at the time, my contact sent pics of the bike while in town. i've been a fan for a while.

ONE of such tuners in Dynojet Research circa 2009-2011 was our tech support guy in the R1-forum.. so the process is what he described. There's no magic wand.

I actually spoke with him earlier this year, as he still works at Dynojet, their sister company makes some products for my Raider :D

they've assisted us over the years and we run a high definition map, but of course i tune for street use.. i dont need a dyno. Race Teams are squeezing
every last drop of power from their bikes.. but you still need to know how it behaves where they actually race dont you think?

Austin is a long fvcking way from Pikes Peak.. Bike gets pre-tuned in a controlled location, on a dyno, but if changes need to be
made on the hill its pretty quick and easy. or you're telling me every single tune is just perfect and accounts for every
possible variance, 3 months before race day? If the tools are available, why would you not utilize them? the app is pretty easy to use.


Dynojet's Dusty Schaller, i think he deserves a little credit:


watch the video, the POD-300 display, the AUTO-TUNE & PCV.. thats what i run on both my R1 & Raider S!
 

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lover of twins
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holy shit dude, I'm reading through this thread and wondering if you ever take the time to consider that maybe you should just shut your yap once in a while?
 

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I love how he always brings up something not relevant to the conversation, gets called on it, and then brings up something else equally not relevant. Generally mixed in are lots of 'i met', 'this guy', and 'internet friend' trying to validate things he has no real world experience. He is also the guy that posted a whine/rant about people who post on the internet with no real world experience on the topic- while he continually does exactly that.

He would clearly benefit from listening more, and talking less.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
yep... i spoke about my experiences with ERIK b4 he purchased his ZX14R and he was not hearing me for the longest time..
kept swearing there was absolutely no point in adding an exhaust to it cause blah blah blah.. you could litgerally copy / paste any
of a thousand different excuses from this very forum, you name it, i heard them all. well.. at 3k kms after purchasing
brand new he added exhaust and had his ECU reflashed and tuned by NEls down in WA state.. never looked back.. SMART!
Smart? No. Choice? Yes. I did the same thing, not because my 14R needed it, but because I wanted to. Does that make me non-smart?

.....to me, it makes absolutely ZERO sense.. the SX H2 has a surper charger and makes less HP than the R1 which is naturally aspirated..
Very judgy of you based on zero experience on this bike. You can bench race all day long, study dyno charts, hang your hat on peak horsepower, talk to your "buddies" on a forum, it means fuck all in the end. Real world seat of the pants is the only way one will know how a bike performs , what it is like to live with, and if it meets one's expectations.

hell a 2005 GSXR-1000 makes the same HP with just a 3/4 system or something stupid.. why the fvck would an OEM manufacturer CHOP
off 50 to 80HP after spending MILLIONS researching and developing a super charger?? so the ZX14R makes more outright power out of the box? :rant
I'm not sure WTF these bikes have to do as a comparison. Here's a Pro-Tip. I owned both bikes, ridden them both extensively. Neither are Sport Tourers (although the ZX14/R can be dressed up like one. You want king of HP? Take a hard look at an H2R.
 

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Dear Shervin of the North,

Glad to hear you have tuned your Raider S to unlock it's full potential. Money well spent.

Signed,

Mr. Scooterboost, who has just unleashed a Gio Electric scooter so it now exceeds pedestrian pace.
 

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I'm always impressed with a lengthy diatribe but even more so when it's interspersed with random words that have been capitalized.
 

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I'm always impressed with a lengthy diatribe but even more so when it's interspersed with random words that have been capitalized.
i'm going to call bullshit on this post, but then i've got plenty of experience on the matter :D

that is all :thumbup


Geez ...can't we just be happy for the guy who bought an awesome new ride.
i think you missed my post.. wish i could do the same!!! i did call him an a$$hole..

what, that doesnt sound like jealousy to you, geez try harder. :flip


Dear Shervin of the North,
thats a cheap shot, even for you. I dont even run a big air kit on mine, let alone holes in the frame. Stock air-box is good enough.
If it makes you feel any better i no longer need a laptop on the road. :coffee


DJ Research came up with an app a few years back.. i actually started running 92 octane on the re-flash V.2!
I did a quick little re-tune yesterday and it worked wonders. Takes seconds to accept a PCV map w/ new Trims now.

why not get the most from it?
since all the recent posts regarding the SX specifically, i decided to do a little more digging.

my earlier statements of throttle opening vs actual butterfly operation via fly-by-wire were a little generous.

when they hacked the H2 ecu they found a setting which limited it to 30%, meaning you crack it open and the most you'll get is 30%.

it appears the same setting is found on the H2-SX.. except it has 13 written in it from the factory. Its one of the restrictions they remove.
edit: not entirely remove per-se.. i've heard it may be gear dependent, considerations of a 75% in its place were mentioned i believe.

the oem setting must be what they mean by 'tuned for more mid-range, street ride-ability'? :D


***
OP, please dont put much weight to my little ranting, i have no horse in the race when it comes to others' bikes.
Everybody has different expectations, needs. Do what makes you happy. I honestly think you already have 'braggin rights'. :canadian
 

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If you can tune the lag out of that motor it seems a logical choice to me.....why not get the most from it?
I heard somewhere that Ivan has a flash tune for the bike that mitigates the lag or something. You still need a display on the dash to datalog and tune on the fly-though; the more I read, the more confused I get.
 

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Nice ride, Frank, congratulations.

I was curious why you checked out the R1250RS but not the S1000XR. Then I re-read your post. Really interesting assessment you had of the GW 'bagger'.
 

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Nice ride, Frank, congratulations.

I was curious why you checked out the R1250RS but not the S1000XR. Then I re-read your post. Really interesting assessment you had of the GW 'bagger'.
Ok, so I'm not the only one who was wondering how a Gold Wing got on the short list.
 
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