BC Sport Bikes Forum banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys,
I'm a new owner of a motorcycle, i never had experience on owning motor vehicles so please help me out. i have already checked the other threads about this, but still got questions.

what exactly do we need as an owner of a motorcycle?
i bought a new bike at the richmond motorsports...
i basically received 3 papers..... icbc....customer's copy APV9, one pink and one blue...... another one is the transfer/tax form

i asked the sales agent where my ownership certificate is? he just said.... ohh.... u could use anything..... the sales bill... the insurance, etc. basically not so clear, i just feel insecure for some reason

and yea the icbc or insurance guy was a jerk... like i'm new and he didn't explain anything to me at all..... very cocky and rude..... i sit down, he goes.... "WHAT DO YOU WANT?" without explaining all the options and stuff.

he wrote my address wrong on the pink and blue sheet. this was all given to me on the day i rode the bike away from richmond motorsports. i was wondering if these papers were just initial and that the address stated..... they would give me another thing??

please help me out, hope i'm on the right track

thanks for your time
 

·
Registered Abuser
Joined
·
1,017 Posts
I think you're supposed to consider the registration part as "ownership". As strange as it may seem, you don't actually own your bike outright. What you own is the equity, along with the bank if you took out a loan. I know it stinks, but registered vehicles are not private property and so you will not get an owner's cert.
 

·
Gear Driven Cams
Joined
·
4,411 Posts
At the bottom of your proof of insurance form is a "certificate of registration" which identifies you as the registered owner of the vehicle. That is your owner's certificate. And registered vehicles are definitely private property.
 

·
Registered Abuser
Joined
·
1,017 Posts
Cert of reg is not a cert of ownership, though it does entitle the bearer to be in possession of the vehicle, be responsible for it, and to transfer registration for compensation. The true ownership cert comes from the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,496 Posts
When you walk into an agent (with the computers, rather than the hand written documents you may get at the dealership from the "road," agent) you get two pieces of paper.
On the first page, at the upper left, beside the ICBC logo, it says:
Owners Certificiate of insurance and vehicle License

At the lower left, it says:
Vehicle Registration.
You'll note the Vehicle Registration is striated so it can be removed/ripped off from the upper 2 thirds of the page.

That page constitutes your "ownership," papers.
The pink and the blue sheets you have are the temporary documents you get.

The APV9T is merely a form indicating the ownership went from the dealership to you, and proves you paid the appropriate tax. (The dealer doesn't have to insert the tax amount, however, if you bought from a private individual, it would have to be written on there)

The second page is the insurace details.

You only need those two pages to prove ownership and registration and insurance. When you renew, or if ICBC sends you the computerized copies, it makes more sense.

Concerned about what you should be carrying with you?
Just the pink and blue papers will be fine, keep the sales agreement, APV9T and the rest of it at home, in a filing cabinet.

When you're 60 years old, you can pull out the dusty copies and recall the day.......
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,196 Posts
Rubberhead is smoking crack.... :D

RH, I don't know why you're going on about the semantics of this but when we sign the papers we are the legal owner. We may have a contract in place that promises money to the bank or other places with the bike as colateral but that does not make the bike partly owned by the bank. It's only identified as one of our holdings that can be repossesed in case of non payment. To that effect the bank can register a lean against it. But as long as we play by the rules and keep making payments the bike is ours as much as we can own anything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
At the bottom of your proof of insurance form is a "certificate of registration" which identifies you as the registered owner of the vehicle. That is your owner's certificate. And registered vehicles are definitely private property.
Sorry but I have to correct you hear, once you register the vehicle it is not your sole private property. What you own once you register it is the EQUITY TITLE, nothing else. When you register it you GIVE whomever you register it with the LEGAL TITLE to the vehicle. In order to have both the LEGAL AND EQUITY Titles you must ASK and recieve the SMO for the vehicle purchased. If you dont get it then the company must give it to ICBC/the government which then has it destroyed so you can never reclaim the legal title to the vehicle. If you do request the SMO and you do get it and say down the road go to register the vehicle ICBC will ask you what you have of proof of ownership and if you tell them you have the SMO as proof they will NOT register the vehicle without you giving them your SMO, the reason is that the SMO is the legal title to the vehicle.
 

·
Registered Abuser
Joined
·
1,017 Posts
But this only applies to "natural persons", right? :roflmao
It depends on how deep you want to go with this and how many t's you want to cross and i's you want to dot. As far as my understanding goes, you can only own PRIVATE property in law, not equity law. Registration is an invention of equity law, natural persons are not and do not directly fall under it's jurisdiction. You can consider your registered vehicle to be your sole private property if you want, but it'll only be your consideration. Technically, it's not your private property, but it's still your sole liability.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,196 Posts
RH, you been hanging around too many lawyers.... I hear there's an analysis group that can help you with this... :D
 

·
Newbie Again
Joined
·
151 Posts
My $0.02

Hmm...Not certain about all of this, but here is what I do know...

1. When ever I have sold a vehicle, transfer of ownership was done through a form I got at the insurance broker, and all I needed was the little perforated strip on the bottom of my insurance doc to prove I was the owner.

2. The only time that I have had a manufacturers Statement of Origin was when I bought a new Subaru in America...at the end of the import process ICBC kept the MSO...can't say I ever saw one before I imported a car.

3. When you have a loan registered against a vehicle, I think you still own it, however there is a registered lean against the title. If you go to sell it, I bet the lean becomes apparent when the purchasing party goes to register it at ICBC (protecting the bank from having their collateral vanish).

Is that enough material to keep the debate going? (JK)

lb
 

·
Not me!!
Joined
·
971 Posts
Here is another take on this.

I know dealers don't usually register the vehicles they buy. They hold the papers and the bike/car. At the point where RMS hands you the papers and you hold the bike, you own it. Someone has to take the bike away from you physically. Assuming the papers can stand up to the scrutiny of the law, you legally control it too.

A dealer may buy a bike from a registered owner... and it may be sold several more times from one dealer to another... in the end, when the next owner wants to insure and register it, in the eyes of the law, he's the next owner. In reality, the bike has changed ownership several times.

I get the feeling you are looking for the magical pink slip. :)

Liens can be a pain. It may not be a problem to register it. That is because the system is not 100% watertight. But, in one scenario that I know of, if the bike is ever written off, ICBC will not write you the cheque. They have to deal with the liens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Elloy thank you for that correction it was the MSO that I was speaking of and in Canada they dont give you the MSO without asking for it.

And by keeping the MSO and registering the vehicle does not actually mean you still retail the legal title to the vehicle because as soon as you sign on the dotted line you have just given it up anyway. If they know you have the MSO they will not register the vehicle without obtaining that piece of paper first.

on your point #3 the loan is against the equity title,

I know this to be due to a previous issue I had with ICBC, basically a car of mine was vandilised and written off. They had the car in the impound lot and gave me the run around however I had not given them ANY permission to sell or keep the vehicle in fact I had told them that I wanted the vehicle back no if ands or buts! I then got a call from a friend stating he had seen my car on a flat bed followed it and a shop had purchased it from ICBC before I had been paid out for it, or signed it over to them. In the end I did get the vehicle back after a massive fight with a manager, however I had talked to a few lawyers about this situation of how they were able to sell my vehicle to someone else while I still owned the title to the vehicle they explained that I did hold the legal title and that was all. After further investigation I found out the truth about registering it and that it actually gives up the legal title meaning ICBC actually held the higher title to the vehicle and that this gave them the right to sell the vehicle as they owned more of it than I did.
 

·
Newbie Again
Joined
·
151 Posts
I know this to be due to a previous issue I had with ICBC, basically a car of mine was vandilised and written off. They had the car in the impound lot and gave me the run around however I had not given them ANY permission to sell or keep the vehicle in fact I had told them that I wanted the vehicle back no if ands or buts! I then got a call from a friend stating he had seen my car on a flat bed followed it and a shop had purchased it from ICBC before I had been paid out for it, or signed it over to them. In the end I did get the vehicle back after a massive fight with a manager, however I had talked to a few lawyers about this situation of how they were able to sell my vehicle to someone else while I still owned the title to the vehicle they explained that I did hold the legal title and that was all. After further investigation I found out the truth about registering it and that it actually gives up the legal title meaning ICBC actually held the higher title to the vehicle and that this gave them the right to sell the vehicle as they owned more of it than I did.
That sucks...how can the insurance company hold the title to your vehicle if they haven't paid out the insurance claim yet? It doesn't sound quite right, but truth is stranger than fiction.
 

·
Newbie Again
Joined
·
151 Posts
Liens can be a pain. It may not be a problem to register it. That is because the system is not 100% watertight. But, in one scenario that I know of, if the bike is ever written off, ICBC will not write you the cheque. They have to deal with the liens.
That sounds about right. In general, the collateral securing your loan is the vehicle...so if the vehicle is written off the Bank gets paid first.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top