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watch this cop's obvious and documented attempted murder of unarmed Elio Carrion. first he orders him to get up off of the ground and as Carrion does the officer opens fire, shooting him three times. he'll walk because in the ratcheting up of the police state which is america, big brother cannot afford to have his storm troopers bogged down in the courts over silly things such as civil liberties.


-video link on news page


Deputy's Gunfire Looks Like a Crime to Some


By Matt Lait and Lance Pugmire, L.A.Times Staff Writers

A San Bernardino County sheriff's deputy who shot a 21-year-old Air Force security officer in an incident captured by a video camera appears to have violated accepted police tactics and may have committed a criminal offense, experts in the use of force by police said Wednesday.

The experts cautioned that the low quality of the digital recording may obscure some important evidence. But what is visible — the image of the deputy firing multiple rounds at 21-year-old Elio Carrion as he appeared to follow the deputy's order to get off the ground — was shocking, they said.

"It's a criminal act," said Roger Clark, a former Los Angeles County sheriff's lieutenant who routinely testifies in court as an expert in police tactics. Clark has worked both for police officers and for citizens who have sued the police. "He shot an unarmed man who was complying with his orders," Clark said.

David Klinger, a use-of-force expert who teaches at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, and wrote a book titled "Into The Kill Zone: A Cop's Eye View of Deadly Force," said the recording was "the screwiest thing I've ever seen. It makes no sense."

"What I saw was totally incongruous with standard police doctrine," said Klinger, a professor of criminology and onetime LAPD officer.

San Bernardino County sheriff's officials have refused to release the name of the deputy, although state law makes the identity of law enforcement officers involved in shootings a matter of public record.

A source close to the investigation confirmed the identity of the deputy as Ivory J. Webb IV, 45.

Answering the front door of Webb's home, a woman said the deputy, currently on paid administrative leave, was not willing to discuss the shooting.

"We have nothing to say," the woman said. "Please leave our property."

Webb was named as one of seven co-defendants in a 2004 federal civil lawsuit against San Bernardino County sheriff's deputies that alleged excessive use of force by another deputy. Jurors in that case ruled for the officers and cleared Webb, who had been accused of failing to stop his colleague from misconduct.

Webb is believed to be the son of a former Compton chief of police, also named Ivory Webb. The elder Webb has a son whose birth date matches that of the San Bernardino deputy. That son played college football at Iowa, where he was a two-time letterman receiver and played in the 1982 Rose Bowl.

A woman who answered the telephone at the elder Webb's home said, "my son didn't do anything."

The shooting, which occurred on a residential street in Chino, was recorded by a bystander and shows Carrion crouching on the ground telling the deputy that he was "on your side" and meant him "no harm."

At one point, a voice on the recording appears to say "stay on the ground." Seconds later, however, the deputy appears to tell Carrion: "Get up, get up." As Carrion rises, the deputy, who is standing several feet away, shoots him three times.

Carrion remains hospitalized in good condition.

Carrion was the passenger in a blue Corvette that had led the deputy on a brief high-speed chase Sunday night. The chase ended when the driver crashed into a fence on a residential street. Neither Carrion nor the driver had any weapons, sheriff's officials said.

On Tuesday, the U.S. attorney's office said a federal civil rights probe of the shooting had been opened.

A separate investigation is being conducted by the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department.

On Wednesday, county Dist. Atty. Michael Ramos said in a statement that "we fully expect the investigation to be both thorough and comprehensive." Once the sheriff's investigation is finished, Ramos said, his prosecutors will decide whether to bring charges against the deputy.

Law enforcement officials warned against making quick judgments about the shooting until the recording had been thoroughly analyzed and investigations completed.

The recording, which has received national media attention, is poor in quality and was shot at night and on a dark residential street. Conversations between the deputy and Carrion are at times difficult to hear, and some statements are too faint or garbled to be discerned.

Sheriff's spokeswoman Cindy Beavers said some dialogue appeared to be inaudible because of background noise.

"We're hoping the FBI's forensic exam of the tape will provide a complete description of the dialogue," Beavers said. "And then there will be no doubts."

Under state law, officers are allowed to use deadly force if they perceive that a person presents a deadly threat to themselves or others.

However, several law enforcement experts who reviewed the recording said they did not see any threat from Carrion that would justify the use of deadly force.

Carrion was not charged with any crime. The driver of the vehicle, Luis Fernando Escobedo, 21, was arrested on suspicion of felony evading but has not been charged. He was released from jail Tuesday night.

Escobedo held an impromptu news conference on the front lawn of his home in Montclair on Wednesday afternoon and said both he and Carrion were trying to cooperate with the deputy and that the deputy had no reason to open fire.

"We were both talking to the officer, saying, 'We're not armed,' " Escobedo said.

"Carrion opened his door to speak to the deputy, who told Carrion to move to the ground, Escobedo said. Later, the deputy ordered Carrion to get up, he said.

"When he pushed himself up, that's when the officer [started] shooting," said Escobedo, who remained in the vehicle throughout the incident. When asked if Carrion reached for anything, Escobedo said his friend had no weapon to reach for.

Some experts said the shooting could have been avoided had the deputy used better tactics. Specifically, they said, the deputy should never have placed himself so close to suspects. Instead, he should have used his own vehicle as cover, called for backup and issued commands from a safe distance.

Ideally, they said, a suspect should be lying prone on the ground and handcuffed before he is asked to stand up.

"It's a two-man operation," said Clark, "one to handcuff the suspect and the other to provide cover."

Good police tactics, he said, "prevent injuries and unnecessary uses of force." And, he added, "there is no room for anger in this profession, and this deputy looks really mad."

Geoffrey Alpert, another police expert on deadly force, said that even if Carrion were disobeying the deputy and standing up without permission, that would not seem to justify the shooting.

"I don't see where there is a threat to the officer," said Alpert, chairman of the University of South Carolina's department of criminology and criminal justice.

Alpert, like other experts, suggested that the deputy might have been pumped up with emotion after being involved in an adrenaline-charged pursuit.

"It's hard to say what was going through that deputy's mind," he said.

The incident was the second controversial shooting by a San Bernardino County sheriff's deputy that was recorded in the past seven months.

The county district attorney's office is investigating an August shooting.

In that incident, a store security camera showed an undercover deputy firing into an SUV at a Rialto shopping center, killing the unarmed driver, Antuan Conners.

Conners was a suspect in two jewelry store robberies, and deputies, traveling in unmarked cars, were attempting to take him into custody. They boxed in his car in the parking lot and got out of their cars. When Conners tried to accelerate around them, he was shot to death.

Sheriff's homicide investigators determined the deputy in that case was compelled to shoot because he feared for the safety of the deputies around him.

"We have the same diligence toward officer-involved shootings as we do with homicides," said Sgt. Frank Bell, the sheriff's lead homicide investigator in the Conners shooting.

"Our job is to present what happened as accurately as possible…. Mistakes are made. We have to understand [deputies] are human. If a guy panicked, we'll say it."

Bell, who is not involved with the investigation of Sunday's shooting, said videotape evidence can be extremely helpful, but added that it does not answer all the questions or reveal what's in the minds of the deputy or suspect.:tredmill
 

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rain? whats that!
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you mean to tell me there are bad cops out there?? shit, say it aint so!!

(does this mean there are bad policitians too??? omg!! :p)
 
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i love how they protect thier own ,,"we dont know the whole story,,lt us investigate "" uh wolf gaurding the chickens me thinks


fuking cops ,the day shit like this stops happening is the day i have more respect for the profession,,happens waaaaaay too much.

yada yada if i need em im calling one ,,blah blah blah ya i heard that already
 

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Disturbing video.

What's more disturbing is that if the occupants of this vehicle was such a threat that the officer needs to have his gun out, why was the officer not behind cover? Calling the suspect backwards out of the cover with plenty of other cover officers present? Lots of questions here.
 

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I've seen all sorts of stupid stuff like this just through the media, numerous counts of cops shooting kids running from shoplifting at a convience store, shooting at people running from being pulled over with no warrants in a car not suspected of anything other than a traffic violation, all do to adrenaline + fight or flight responses. Police forces are improving in their use of force w/ better training and screening of officers (though still nowhere near where they should be in many cases physically and mentally... a mid rank, out of shape, martial artist like myself should not be able to out react and spar a cop) but no officer should work alone especially on an arrest after a chase, should be set on dutied pairings, protects the people and them... I've been approached aggresively by solo working police personally and found it dangerous by their auto-escalating the issue and frankly rude and if I were not acting calming and mentally relaxed could have seen adverse situations all for walking around downtown Seatle at night after a jazz gig (was told by Seatle Police to DROP my trumpet gig bag and lie down on the sidewalk without provocation or clear reason for the demand, simply 'Seatle Police! Drop the bag, and lie down on the ground...' and had I not visually identified that indeed he was a cop I probably would have fled instantly and gotten shot no doubt). ((was dressed in blue pinstripe suite, polished shoes and a cheap fedora... not exactly thug gear unless we're talking '20s mafia))
 
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Its depressing to know that people who are trained to uphold the law cannot even uphold the law themselves.

What's next? An idiot as president? wait a sec...
 

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More than meets the eye
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I don't know why I always get sucked into these things....

This video does look bad, no doubt! but once again one bad apple seems to taint everyones view towards an entire group of people.
 
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Pvt. BLOGGINS said:
I don't know why I always get sucked into these things....

This video does look bad, no doubt! but once again one bad apple seems to taint everyones view towards an entire group of people.
if it was only ever one,it could be passed by ,but you know its like one a week ,and thats the ones we get to see.

Im pretty sure id turn into one of these assholes too,if i had to wade through human sewage everyday ,so no excuses made for any of em but its not completely isolated and it happens ALL the time .Just like anything else theres good and bad,but when they are given a gun and a whole bunch of power,,its bound to happen .
 

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rain? whats that!
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I'm going to toot the RCMP horn a bit here, the average American police officer deals with, and is trained a whole lot differently than the average General Duty RCMP officer (not talking about the traffic/ticket guys). Same goes to the VPD as well.

We dont generally hear these types of stories up here for these reasons....not that there are no bad cops here either.
 

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radmtnbkr said:
Sheriff's spokeswoman Cindy Beavers said some dialogue appeared to be inaudible because of background noise.
Hmmm...that spokeswoman's name sounds familiar. Was she in the...entertainment industry per chance?
 

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Cindy Beavers. Total porn name.

Let's play the porn name game... your middle name is your first name and the name of the street you grew up on is your last name.

...Dillon Bain.
 
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sam fleming............but seriously fuck i hate pigs. funbusters to the Nth degree.
 

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More than meets the eye
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borderline said:
if it was only ever one,it could be passed by ,but you know its like one a week ,and thats the ones we get to see.

Im pretty sure id turn into one of these assholes too,if i had to wade through human sewage everyday ,so no excuses made for any of em but its not completely isolated and it happens ALL the time .Just like anything else theres good and bad,but when they are given a gun and a whole bunch of power,,its bound to happen .
I work with a few assholes, power trippers, but I'll tell you what impresses me more, is the hundreds of guys I work with that aren't, and no matter how mcuh they are hated by the general public (and we seem to be more hated than loved it seems), they still go out there take it, and do a good job. The general public really has no clue the crap a police officer has to go through everyday, does that excuse poor behaviour? No, but it might give insight on why someone has become the way they are.

On a side note I think B.C. has the worst attitude towards police officers than any other province as a whole.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Deputy who shot airman scrutinized in 2000 lawsuit

By Melissa Pinion-Whitt and Amy Frye, Staff Writers

CHINO - A sheriff's deputy who shot an unarmed man at the end of a high-speed chase Sunday has previously been under scrutiny for suspected police misconduct in a 2000 lawsuit...




contrary to what some will probably believe i didn't post this to be a hater only to document the situation. denying that shit like this doesn't happen, HOWEVER EXTREMELY RARE IT IS, is a nonstarter because unfortunately it does. how is it that guys like this aren't weeded out? whatever happened to the cop that spoke up about the stanley park cruise? that guy should be the chief.

when i was looking for info on this storey and i came across this website called COPS SUCK. the original article was close to the top of the page a couple of days ago and when i went back to find more info on the above link the storey was down at the bottom of the page below 30 or so new news items. there have been so many "cops suck" related news bits in the past few days that this one is already old news :rolleyes.






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Pvt. BLOGGINS said:
I work with a few assholes, power trippers, but I'll tell you what impresses me more, is the hundreds of guys I work with that aren't, and no matter how mcuh they are hated by the general public (and we seem to be more hated than loved it seems), they still go out there take it, and do a good job. The general public really has no clue the crap a police officer has to go through everyday, does that excuse poor behaviour? No, but it might give insight on why someone has become the way they are.

On a side note I think B.C. has the worst attitude towards police officers than any other province as a whole.
:thumbup

Them Albertan cowboys visiting during Grey Cup were mighty friendly. Even when piss drunk. Our locals here only need two beers and they want to fight the cops. Go figure.
 
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