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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Dropped by PRS (during my rain ride) and had a good chat with Kramer/Mark about how far I had progress. He reminded me that I was always the cautious one (or perhaps the worst student :laughing ) and he applauded my determination on riding out in the rain just to gain the experience.

I shared my experiences with him and he nodded ever so patiently. I told him that there were things that we couldn't understand during our lessons but they all became useful once we started riding.

Flashback:
"You are not listening" yells Chris during our lesson at PRS in the parking lot. Everyone that teaches at PRS does a lot of yelling. My thoughts were "How can I listen when you are yelling at me!". In fact everytime they yell, my bike quivered. In the real world everything/everyone is yelling at you and you have to respond accordingly. There isn't time to think about riding, you just have to respond.

"Keep your eyes on that happy face" yells one of the instructor, as they dash in front of you and you attempt to look through them. The consequence of not concentrating on the happy face painted on the wall behind the instructors' head, was a cup full of water thrown at you.

Applying the principles.
1. look where you are going. I struggle with this one for ages even though I knew about the concept that the bike will go where you are looking, my body, arms and thoughts fought against each other during those lessons. Turn the dam steering wheel? (steering wheel?) Ok handles.

and the light comes on "AHHHH!!" and it was a surprise to me when this came naturally to me. After being on the bike for less then a month, my muscle memories are already kicking in.

Turning is no longer a thought process. In fact the bike already begins to turn as you look in the direction of travel (there is really no steering at all!!); and the reason for this is your body muscles does the steering naturally.

Countersteering is useful on longer curves when you don't have a final line of sight, just push harder in the direction of the turn.

2. draping your body over the bike but keep your arms loose.

Well we didn't have to drape our bodies over the PRS bikes, but we did have to keep our arms loose. With my sportbike, this advice came back to me in a flash as this is the natural bike sitting/lying position. So I draped my body over the bike, holding the tank with my knees and gently holding the handles.

The looseness of holding the handlebars keeps the wind and any other body reactions from feeding into the bike. It also allows the front wheel to self adjust itself over bumps, rocks, etc. From time to time, I would drop one of my arms while riding to remind myself to keep my hands on the handlebars loose.

3. Countersteering. I cheated on this one when I was learning this at PRS by faking a right push to go right when I was actually turning the handlebars right with my other hand. It doesn't work was my thoughts at that time.

Countersteering came naturally to me on my heavier sport bike. In fact sometimes I think of countersteering as even pushing the handle in the direction of turn, to hold it from hitting the tank. At higher speeds I am pushing harder to turn tighter into the corners.

Now to make this work, you really have to let the other hand loose on the handlebar (no pushing or pulling) although they say you could pull it to assist the pushing of your other hand.

Countersteering works. Just remember that if you want a tighter turn, drop you elbow and push in the direction that you are turning.

4. the 20 second look ahead rule.

I have been practicing this for years in my car, however it isn't the same when you are on a motorcycle. Everything is a potential hazard and you have only your prediction and your fallback plan to go on.

I was sandwiched following a car, a semi trailer beside me and the curb on the other side. I had attempted to keep at least nose to nose with the semi almost tailgating the car in front, predicting that the semi may decide to change into my lane; and it did. I slammed on the brakes, falling to about half of the length of the semi before it took notice of me and changed back to his original lane. He waved at me to pass as well as waving an apology.

Ever since, I've been playing the prediction game. Predicting who is going to change into my lane, who is going to turn left without signaling, watchful for cars coming out from side roads, pieing every corner. It is a constant game of vigilance.

5. slow hands (throttling). I failed this one at PRS quite miserably as I gunned the engine on and off. Thereby I used a lot of clutching to keep the bike from lurching at the school.

I spent a solid week (over 40 hours) getting my muscle to respond gently to the throttle on my sport bike and even then, every now and then I would get a muscle twitch and the throttle would flick. Remember the saying that Road Riders have on/off hands and racers have slow hands?

At this stage after riding for awhile, muscle spasms happens a lot less and when they do, my clutch hands still saves me from a violent lurch.

However I do notice that my hands now have a safety lock (strange to think of it that way), but even when I want to turn quickly, it moves quickly but slowly. My body no longer allows me to flick the throttle, or perhaps it was the memory of when I did flicked it and I almost flew off the bike (once) that prevents me from doing it again.

6. slow riding? remember the hours of really slow riding on the parking lot? well it becomes useful during a traffic jam. I have been coasting at close to 0kph (I think the digital read out doesn't register anything going slower then 3kph) while the cars are inching forward. A favorite past time of mine (during traffic hour) is to coast to the next red light just in time to start off without putting my foot down.

7. Relax. I was never relax during my lessons at PRS. My arms would hang loose, but my body would be rigid. During my road rides, my attention is riveted to the bike in front of me and my attention was to my head set listening to Chris yelling to "check the boys" (shoulder check).

It wasn't until I rode with my own bike that I began to relax. What a difference that made to the riding. The bike was more responsive, cornering was easier and so forth. When I find myself too close to a meridian, I find myself tensing and the bike starts to go straight. All I need to do is to remember Chris yelling "relax, drop your elbows" and the bike begins to follow the curve naturally. Relax when you ride, it will save your life.

"Check the boys!!!" yells Chris
"Check!!"

Ralphael

ps. I am just reminiscing. If you have tip to share, please share it.
 

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A favorite past time of mine (during traffic hour) is to coast to the next red light just in time to start off without putting my foot down.
My only tip would be not to keep up with your favorite past time or you'll soon find a late light runner sending you flying. Best to wait a second while the light is green making sure everyone has stopped, or is stopping.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My only tip would be not to keep up with your favorite past time or you'll soon find a late light runner sending you flying. Best to wait a second while the light is green making sure everyone has stopped, or is stopping.
Checking/pieing every corner is a must for survival.

The past time is only to see if I can keep my foot off the ground by coasting. Now this doesn't mean that I am coasting from one light to the other, but bascially predicting if the light is about to change and not accelerate before stopping.

Ralphael
 

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mike was taken
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he knows what you meant, what he meant is because you're taking lights that way and going the second they turn green you're at risk of getting caught by someone running the light right after it turns red for them
 

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The Wizard
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Never time lights whether it's on the bike or in the cage.

I generally count 2 "mississippis" before leaving on a green. Way too may people running reds and yellows.
 

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The Wizard
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You also need to work on making longer posts. A good rule of thumb is that each post should take a full page.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sorry to have misled you guys but no I won't go through an intersection until I checked that it is clear and if it requires that I stop, I will stop.

but it is a good tip to count 2 mississippi before moving from a green light.

My tip is not to accelerate through the block and slam on the brakes at the last minute; simply let yourself cruise and use the remaining portion of your bikes momentum to get yourself to the corner, check the intersection then proceed.

In the above post, I was just happy that I found a use for slow riding and at times I found (especially on the West minister highway during traffic hour) that I was doing 0kph while still having both of my foot on the pegs.

Ralphael
 

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Hockey Trev
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yep prs was worth it...

Ralph i'm reading your post(s) and i'm remembering my own experience with PRS and I think we got different things out of the lesson, i think i had much to learn mentally and (relatively) not as much to learn physically.

What i mean is that things like how to actually operate the bike (looking where u want to go, countersteering, draping your body over the bike...), these all seemed to come much easier to me than things like CANCELLING MY GODDAMN SIGNALS or the like.


Chris this is trev, with the white 240sx was in the group with Shawn and Kim a month or 2 ago, i'm the guy who was using too much arm/not enough wrist during that last excersise before the MSA (the accel/180 degree turn/full brake).:laughing
 

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Sorry to have misled you guys but no I won't go through an intersection until I checked that it is clear and if it requires that I stop, I will stop.

but it is a good tip to count 2 mississippi before moving from a green light.

My tip is not to accelerate through the block and slam on the brakes at the last minute; simply let yourself cruise and use the remaining portion of your bikes momentum to get yourself to the corner, check the intersection then proceed.

In the above post, I was just happy that I found a use for slow riding and at times I found (especially on the West minister highway during traffic hour) that I was doing 0kph while still having both of my foot on the pegs.

Ralphael
Ralphael, You seem to have a problem taking advice from people on the board. If someone tells you something, you always defend yourself... just take the advice.

BTW, you can't really truly know if an intersection is clear if you don't stop... if you are coasting, you haven't taken the time to look both ways. Same thing with stop signs. It's better to stop, put a foot down, and look.

that said, I always coast through intersections and rarely stop at stop signs, but at least I can admit it's not safe. :rockon
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Ralphael, You seem to have a problem taking advice from people on the board. If someone tells you something, you always defend yourself...
NO I DON'T!!! ..... I mean no I don't... and I don't always defend myself :blindside j/k guys... I probably do have a problem in listening :surrender
 

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I will meet some of you one day and I will remember who was a jerk here online and I will avoid you as you will probably be a jerk in real life. It is a small society. I know the wife of the administrator that owns this site, I know Mark, Dat, Chris and even Marbod of whom I buy my bike parts from. I even met Magic today. Next year I will do track not because I need the speed, but I want the experience. Karma will catch up to you someday.

Doug, I also notice that you are an IT. Guess what, I am in IT. Small world eh?

Ralphael
A couple things on this paragraph:

First of all, people are not like their online persona's, you'll learn this. Second, Everyone knows those people, so don't feel special... and you're unlikely to run into many of us if you're shopping @ Marbod's. And Majic's always @ Starbucks, so how'd you run into him if you don't go there? lol

And btw, the reason people are giving you a hard time is because you're giving out advice to other newbs after it's apparent you haven't REALLY learned anything from anyone else that has more experience than you. And experience from driving really doesn't mean all that much when you transfer it to a bike, especially one with 160+ horsepower and weighs < 400lbs.

I'm guessing you feel that you're more knowledgeable since you're older, but either you're willing to learn and take people's advice, or you're not. You seem like you think you're above all that (keep in mind, this is just my perception based on your threads/posts), which is why you haven't ventured out of the Newb forum.

Maybe you feel like you're a big fish in a small pond in this part of the board.... but maybe it's time to start ASKING questions and listening to the answers before trying to give your own advice.

EDIT: I just saw your "ride in rain" thread, it's a start! Good job.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Scott,

Thanks for taking the time for writing your response, rather then just calling me a troll. It is appreciated.

Please understand the I am responding to your post and not writing in self defense.

First of all, people are not like their online persona's, you'll learn this.
You will be surprised at how often the inner self is reflected in real life. You may hide it well in real life, but the online persona is a good indication of what you are hiding. This I know through experience.

Second, Everyone knows those people, so don't feel special... and you're unlikely to run into many of us if you're shopping @ Marbod's. And Majic's always @ Starbucks, so how'd you run into him if you don't go there? lol
Unbeknowist to me, my joining of KDawg outing I managed to meet several of BCSB members today and I did take the time to find out afterwards who I rode with. As to Majic, I met him at Marbods and not at Starbucks. It is a small world.

And btw, the reason people are giving you a hard time is because you're giving out advice to other newbs after it's apparent you haven't REALLY learned anything from anyone else that has more experience than you.
People are giving me a hard time because I started my first post (accidentally mind you) with the most controversial topic of all motorcycle forums and that is a "Noob with a R1". At every post that I make afterwards, I am followed by the "Troll" statement and of course now that I know the Faux Pas that I made, it is hard to live it down.

In all my posts, what you are reading is a diary of my experiences as well as my time of collecting your advices into a single post for others to find, rather then another noobie like me of having to search through the forums or read pages upon pages of advices. My posts are really your words all condensed and interpreted into something a noobie like myself would have liked to have read. Trust me, I do follow your advices in all my practices as it helps me survive.

And experience from driving really doesn't mean all that much when you transfer it to a bike, especially one with 160+ horsepower and weighs < 400lbs.

I'm guessing you feel that you're more knowledgeable since you're older, but either you're willing to learn and take people's advice, or you're not. You seem like you think you're above all that (keep in mind, this is just my perception based on your threads/posts), which is why you haven't ventured out of the Newb forum.
When I am constantly attacked, it is hard to weed out the good advice from the bad. Something as basic as corner checking is a skill that is transferable from my years of driving. Advice for checking the corners is not advice on how to handle a 160hp 400 lb motorcycle.

I do not believe that I am more knowledgeable because of my age. In fact I feel the opposite; because of my age I feel foolish in learning how to ride a motorcycle.

Maybe you feel like you're a big fish in a small pond in this part of the board....
I am definitely a small fish in a big pond and there is a good chance that I will be eaten very soon.

but maybe it's time to start ASKING questions and listening to the answers before trying to give your own advice.
noted....

EDIT: I just saw your "ride in rain" thread, it's a start! Good job.
Thank you.

Perhaps we shall meet one day for a shared riding experience, however no Starbucks please.

Ralphael
 

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Hockey Trev
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Ralph i want to say a couple things

1. I AM impressed that your responses are mature when people try to piss you off.

2. I find many of your threads frustrating.

It just sounds like you're trying to give tips as a seasoned vet when your very very new to this yourself.

After a bit more riding exp. I think you'll look back at these threads and chuckle to yourself...

my guess is this guy is soon going to be posting a rider down thread with advice on how to slide properly/bounce off a car's hood
Hope not
 

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Riding in the rain
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woo... this is getting into a war scene...

peace people, we are all fellow riders are we not?

But I do agree with Ralph on the point that PRS is a great school with great instructors. I feel kinda stupid thinknig back before I got my liscene, i was going to learn how to ride the bike myself or just simply paying someone (100$- 200$) to teach me. how can i even think about not going to school and survive out there?

hence, +1 for PRS

Kramer and Dat are the shitz~
 
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