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Discussion Starter #1
BC traffic courts will accept, with increasing frequency, simply a police officer's word that you were speeding etc. The Minister of Public Safety has finally confirmed to me that there are NO published standards as to what equipment the police must use to measure evidence being gathered to prosecute riders / drivers. So theoretically police can acquire their equipment at a dollar store to measure your infractions ... but it's not even necessary if an objective measurment is not required. Leads to the questions: 1) why does the taxpayer supply RADAR for virtually every police cruiser 2) How comfortable are you knowing that you can have your bike impounded for excessive speed on a visual estimate and potentially permanently seized and sold for offences based on an officer's estimate and something that never saw the light of day in court?
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Excessive+noise+beholder/7979396/story.html
 

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Wanderer of the Wastes
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I'd like to think that such powers would not be carelessly abused.

Experience has unfortunately shown that some officers do indeed seem to revel in their 'absolute, unchecked, and unquestionable authority'.
 

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Strebe für Hölle
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Well that is some bullshit indeed. I had thought the cops had to use a decibel reader in regards to sound. In regards to speed, again one would assume a legit radar scan would be necessary or, if the officer was tailing you and matching your speed or, using the sticks (for the lack of the proper term) on the freeway to estimate one's travel of speed from a distance.

While this information is new to me, this is precisely why I've always avoided the Greater Vancouver area as, I had learnt at the turn of the century that cops in the Vancouver, New West and Richmond areas were especially prickish about loud vehicles via the rricers on RevScene having their cars pulled over for excessive noise and, being hit with a VI - no doubt the cops are just as picky about bikes out there.

I do agree that there really should be a tested standard, as any thing else is giving the cops too much power and leaves room for error and, an unjust opinion.
 

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I drive with a radar detector in my truck most of the time,
It is amazing how many times I get lazered at speed traps when I am going at or below the speed limit,
Which makes me suspicious that they can estimate your speed visually.
I have always been told that the Lazer / radar is only used to confirm the officer's observation of a speeding vehicle.

On the other hand, the police in some small town in the USA went to a elementary school and asked the kids to tell them which car was speeding thru the school zone, amazing that these 10 year old kids were accurate in spotting the offenders.
So it is pretty easy to spot speeders even for the untrained eye.


BTW,

#1 Ticket Prone: Hummer H2 / H3
Speeding Ticket Rating: 4.63 times average
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I had a Whistler cop pull me over in the pitch black at midnight two years ago. She rounded a corner approximately 150 meters in front of me and at 50 meters she operated her emergencies and pulled me over. I was not speeding and when I asked her to show me her instrument that said I was speeding, she said she did a visual. My response was to ask her how she could do that in the dark with nothing to provide a reference. Afterward, as I prepared to show up in court to cross examine her for my case that she never showed up for, I surmised that she had most likely received an erroneous reading from her RADAR set (sharp rocks on either side of the road can do that) and that she probably made a hasty decision to pull me over, and then just go with it. The issue with giving police this kind of universal latitude is that they can and will abuse it. My experience has shown me a surprising eagerness to push the envelope by police at times. This RCMP officer would have had a very good chance of having the charge stick in court.
 

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...LIKE A BOSS!
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See even if they do use an instrument to back up their training to estimate your speed you can still call in to question the last time the officer had a refresher course or the last time the instrument was calibrated. Just because you've been hit with the ticket doesn't mean your guilty...that's just the first step to a process that ends in court.
 

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countdown to next crash..
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I've been lucky enough not to have any issues with an officer since I was 19, about 20 years ago. No idea why, but I'll take it.

I agree with Ian on this, I'd rather have them use standardized equipment that's been calibrated often and that they're trained to use. Subjective opinions of someone who could be having a bad day is not something I'd like to rely on as to whether or not I get a ticket or my bike taken away.
 

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backslider
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Meh - reading between the lines, proves that most of y'all on this forum, are a bunch of scofflaw-type miscreants.
 

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It is increasingly apparent that it is time to start pushing back.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
See even if they do use an instrument to back up their training to estimate your speed you can still call in to question the last time the officer had a refresher course or the last time the instrument was calibrated. Just because you've been hit with the ticket doesn't mean your guilty...that's just the first step to a process that ends in court.
Much easier said than done. IMO calibration is irrelevant if the equipment is not standardized. Calibration to what or by what measurement and where is the oversight if the equipment happens to be a one off purchased from ebay for instance?
 

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countdown to next crash..
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Much easier said than done. IMO calibration is irrelevant if the equipment is not standardized. Calibration to what or by what measurement and where is the oversight if the equipment happens to be a one off purchased from ebay for instance?
I agree. They should be using standardized equipment. Without that there's no guarantee this cannot be abused. While I never have had an issue with an officer, I don't see a reason to leave it open to the judgment of someone who might be having a bad day, in the middle of a divorce, doesn't like how you look/what you ride or just feels like making your day shitty. Leaving things open like this leaves the potential for abuse to be wide open as well.
 

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Fastronaut
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So RCMP members are going out and buying their own lasers for traffic enforcement?
 

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there is a female cop in whistler who flat out lies when she pulls over bikes. i got pulled over and given a ticket when she stated she clocked me. my radar never went off, and i was pegged at the limit(was at cheakamus passing lane... i NEVER speed there...).

anyways, she pulled a no show in court.

yup, some cops love to power trip. and the good ones pay for it.


I had a Whistler cop pull me over in the pitch black at midnight two years ago. She rounded a corner approximately 150 meters in front of me and at 50 meters she operated her emergencies and pulled me over. I was not speeding and when I asked her to show me her instrument that said I was speeding, she said she did a visual. My response was to ask her how she could do that in the dark with nothing to provide a reference. Afterward, as I prepared to show up in court to cross examine her for my case that she never showed up for, I surmised that she had most likely received an erroneous reading from her RADAR set (sharp rocks on either side of the road can do that) and that she probably made a hasty decision to pull me over, and then just go with it. The issue with giving police this kind of universal latitude is that they can and will abuse it. My experience has shown me a surprising eagerness to push the envelope by police at times. This RCMP officer would have had a very good chance of having the charge stick in court.
 

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yeah no surprise here at all... got pegged for an excessive coming into hope years ago... complete bs.. i showed up with paperwork expecting a fight...

cop did show and i got it down to a cheapo speeding ticket... i doubt i was over the limit by even 5 clicks...


this just assures me a NEXUS pass is the best tool against speeding tickets.! :flip
 

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corner worker
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There is actually a course that a police officer can take to estimate speed of a vehicle, in Alberta, if the officer has that course under his or her belt, it stands in court.
It is nothing more than a cash grab, will giving someone a ticket slow them down in the future?
Not for long.
Does speed kill?
The same arguement, do guns kill?
This whole speed thing will never end.
How about lifting the speed limits, go hard, survival of the best.
It won't take long and people will figure it out on their own.
At least emergency services will be busy for a couple months.
So will the grave yard.
Or just put up with driving like its broken?
 

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Very troublesome. I have extreme distrust for the traffic division of the RCMP, Delta Police, New West Police, and Abbotsford Police. Clearly, this is a system of revenue collection. If it was about safety, traffic police would set up shop at the most dangerous road areas in,,,,North America, namely urban intersections. Not at the bottom of a 3/4 mile hill in a semi rural-wilderness area, like the hill going down into Fury Creek.

I'm not sure what can be done. Total avoidance of tourist areas in the summer maybe, so business owners feel the hurt and complain to government.
 

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Meh - reading between the lines, proves that most of y'all on this forum, are a bunch of scofflaw-type miscreants.
HEY!! K-rod I represent that remark!! :)

I can honestly say that I have never received a ticket I did not richly deserve.

I do feel the new police officers are a bit less honorable than they used to be, they seem much more aggressive , and less likely to back off, even when they find themselves in the wrong.

Sign of the times?
 

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Just got back from a all you can speed trip down south - had a blast, and learned an important lesson in regards to speed kills - it only kills if you crash. having 75mph limits on the interstates was nice, set cruze to 82mph, and cover ground. Got pulled over once in idaho, and the cop was super nice, told me to keep it down a little, and have a nice trip - he seemed more intrested in looking over my sv, which was stuffed in the back of my minivan. Even the wife was setting the cruize at 80mph(gps) and bitching about how lame lower mainland drivers were. Made if back from palm desert in 2 days - coho ferry is the way to go if you live on the island - only takes 5 min to get through customs coming off the ship.


Escort redline on straight away interstate = 5 mile detection range......!!!!
(several chp in ca hiding behind overpasses - all using KA band)

Cheers,
 

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Poser Emeritus
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I'd like to think that such powers would not be carelessly abused. Experience has unfortunately shown that some officers do indeed seem to revel in their 'absolute, unchecked, and unquestionable authority'.
Thanks to cell phone cameras those powers are less likely to be abused. I must say that once again your humour and "reluctant knife to the heart approach" gives me the desire to pause, for applause.

So RCMP members are going out and buying their own lasers for traffic enforcement?
:canadian

They have to buy from Amazon.ca not Amazon.com because the prices are higher at .ca 599 US or 1230 CDN

http://www.amazon.com/Stalker-Radar...716&sr=8-2&keywords=radar+gun+stalker+sport+2


http://www.amazon.ca/Stalker-Sport-...K8K6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1361246976&sr=8-2

Maybe this is what the RCMP are buying themselves :laughing

BY the way it is pretty easy to figure out what equipment the RCMP is using, just go to the Purchasing link


http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pd-dp/contra/2011-03-31/000441-eng.htm

So we can assume from the Mega-Tech website that the RCMP uses Stalker Radar units

http://www.mega-tech.com/html/stalker-radar-products.html


and for Laser the wonderful products from Lasertech

http://www.mega-tech.com/lasertech/index.html

Getting back to Ian's Loud Harley pipes issue, an issue for which I continue to have zero sympathy the solution would be for BC to adopt SAE J2825 (Measurement of Exhaust Sound Pressure Levels of Stationary On-Highway Motorcycles). This standard could then be used as a defense against a motorcycle sound violation tickets that were issued improperly.

Want more information on RCMP radar and Laser? Why not send end in a Freedom of Information Request (FOI)

http://www.oic-ci.gc.ca/eng/abu-ans-wwd-cqf-brochure.aspx

Ask for the type and number of radar and Lidar units (including serial numbers)and the number of RCMP officers who are certified to operate them by province.

I would expect that a subsequent FOI could request the training manuals, policies and SOP for the RCMP in Canada as it pertains to their officers. I am sure that once one had the serial numbers getting the service and recalibration records for each unit would be easier. The manufacuturer's training material would also be quite useful.

Imagine if all of this information was on one gigantic webstie for all of us to enjoy. It would be even better if it had monthy updates on the work /repair and test data by unit.

BTW the visual estimation of speed got a spanking last summer, it is particularly amusing when the officer is describing the length of a yard

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-4th-circuit/1604482.html
 

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I surmised that she had most likely received an erroneous reading from her RADAR set (sharp rocks on either side of the road can do that


Uh no. Police Radar calculates speeds from moving objects. Sharp rocks on the side of the road has nothing to do with it. A trained operator will realize if a reading is not valid. Patrol speed must match certified speedo, doppler audio shift must be correct, tracking history and visual estimation must match displayed target speed.
 
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