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The Silver Power Ranger
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237 Posts
sAdam, now add the human being to the bike and everything changes. how hard they grip the handle bars, push down with their feet, shift their weight, throttle, break, how tense and stiff they are, target fixation, etc, etc.
 

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Hates drama...
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1,916 Posts
I see, so the new guys that show up don't ride in their groove, they try to follow you and they crash... well that's just stupid, being new doesn't have anything to do with it. they could be 10 years in to riding, and if they followed the same pattern of behaviour with an even better rider, you'll get the same out come, another idiot in a ditch.
whoa!!! slow down there big guy. Until you can start putting km's under your belt and until you start gaining practical experience, you best not comment like a know-it-all, unless you're suffering from DocTaimoor syndrome.

wait until you get put into that situation first, see how you react to it and then come talk to us after. your posting is purely based on your own speculation and how you think you would react.....
----

welcome to BCSB :flip

ride safe
 

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Registered
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18,864 Posts
I'm going to coin a new term. It's called a noobarb. A noob that rhubarbs.

A noobarb in the metro vancouver area usually occurs on a ride advertising twisty backroads. Most noobs have ridden around town,
maybe rode the Barnet Highway... possibly to Squamish and back. MAYBE they even tried Dewdney Trunk road. Who knows.

But they ride around on main roads. They are not thinking about linking up a series of less travelled residential routes. The ones
that survive the ride always have this look on their face and say stuff like... "Jesus, I never knew those roads existed, I have no
idea where the hell we went.."

Those who noobarb... are so out of their element, they may make part way out of sheer luck. Most of them are all over the lane,
probably scared shitless, but not willing to either slow down, or stop.. wait for the leader to come back looking for them, and have
a casual conversation like..."Uhm, this is dangerous for me... I'm going to go home."... which is totally cool.

But they don't, they continue on... adrenaline going... wanting to be part of the deal... until they hit that one corner and luck
runs out.

More than not, it's very quickly into the ride... in a very predictable spot. If it's at the end of the ride, it's generally a more experienced
noob doing a noobarb because they are just plain worn out.
 

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Super Moderator
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9,052 Posts
Discussion Starter #204
...........technically speaking, can't a newb on a modern sportbike match a faster rider through a corner if he commits to the same line and lean angle? of course this is generally speaking, and assuming the faster/more experienced leader has left some margin of safety beyond hanging off and backing it in etc.
Technically, yes. Practically, No.

Assume the faster rider is technically capable of going through the corner at 100km/hr. Practically, the faster rider probably goes through the corner at 70km/hr. The 30km/hr is margin for things like gravel, oil, creatures, oncoming cars in your lane, poor site lines and a huge inventory of other factors. Knowing these factors, and more importantly knowing them inherently (from experience) is the difference between the two riders.

The slower rider can technically follow @ 70km/hr, but practically they should be following at something less that 70km/hr.

The faster rider also has greater skill when trouble does show up, and even at 70km/hr, the difference between the two riders is even larger.

Following a faster rider through some turns is a good thing, but don't fool yourself in to thinking that accomplishing one 70km/hr corner means you can safely do that all day long safely.
 

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Registered Luser
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2,115 Posts
Technically, yes. Practically, No.

Assume the faster rider is technically capable of going through the corner at 100km/hr. Practically, the faster rider probably goes through the corner at 70km/hr. The 30km/hr is margin for things like gravel, oil, creatures, oncoming cars in your lane, poor site lines and a huge inventory of other factors. Knowing these factors, and more importantly knowing them inherently (from experience) is the difference between the two riders.

The slower rider can technically follow @ 70km/hr, but practically they should be following at something less that 70km/hr.

The faster rider also has greater skill when trouble does show up, and even at 70km/hr, the difference between the two riders is even larger.

Following a faster rider through some turns is a good thing, but don't fool yourself in to thinking that accomplishing one 70km/hr corner means you can safely do that all day long safely.

well said.
 

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Super Moderator
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23,551 Posts
i'm half being an argumentative ass, and half serious, as I still consider myself a newb, and i am definitely at my fastest following one of you jerks through the corners. This is because I am otherwise too conservative with my corner entry speed.



please explain. as my limited understanding of physics tells me that lean angle and line are the the basic determining factors of how fast a single track vehicle can negotiate a given arc of roadway if traction remains a constant (as with two equal bikes on equal tires).
I consider myself a newb too, mostly because I sure as hell am, relatively speaking.

I can take a certain line though a corner, and have a given lean angle.

Now, I can take that same corner, same line, same lean, but different speed, based on my riding style, body position.

Both corners, same line, same lean angle, could also be the same speed, or they could be different, it's not exclusive.

Lean angle and line alone, do not dictate speed. Some guys on supersports can chose a line, and drag a knee,going
around at 50mhp.....I may take the identical line and speed, and not drag, but have a more severe lean angle.

Neither of these situations take into affect the many other variables, which is ultimately my point....too many measurables
to narrow it down to 2 single and simplistic factors.
 

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backslider
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11,214 Posts
I see, so the new guys that show up don't ride in their groove, they try to follow you and they crash... well that's just stupid, being new doesn't have anything to do with it. they could be 10 years in to riding, and if they followed the same pattern of behaviour with an even better rider, you'll get the same out come, another idiot in a ditch.

good point. agreed.
 

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The Silver Power Ranger
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237 Posts
whoa!!! slow down there big guy. Until you can start putting km's under your belt and until you start gaining practical experience, you best not comment like a know-it-all, unless you're suffering from DocTaimoor syndrome.
i'm not talking like a motorcycle know it all. but I would say I'm a snowboarding know it all, i've been skiing and boarding for 28 years, I would call my self an experienced rider at that. and the concept of following a better rider is the same, being on a bike or a board. so that's where i get my understanding from, not from bikes. but believe me i've had people try and keep up to me on a snowboard and the same thing happens, I'd be sitting there pulling them out of a tree , picking up their gear from half way down the mountain, and wasting a lot of time. I know the feeling all the same.

I am a new motorcycle rider, and I do take it easy and stick to what I feel comfortable doing, not arguing that in any way. and I'm here to learn from you guys, the more I ride with better riders, the better I get at a quicker pace. I have a fast learning curve and I intend to use it =)
 

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Hates drama...
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1,916 Posts
i'm not talking like a motorcycle know it all. but I would say I'm a snowboarding know it all, i've been skiing and boarding for 28 years, I would call my self an experienced rider at that. and the concept of following a better rider is the same, being on a bike or a board. so that's where i get my understanding from, not from bikes. but believe me i've had people try and keep up to me on a snowboard and the same thing happens, I'd be sitting there pulling them out of a tree , picking up their gear from half way down the mountain, and wasting a lot of time. I know the feeling all the same.

I am a new motorcycle rider, and I do take it easy and stick to what I feel comfortable doing, not arguing that in any way. and I'm here to learn from you guys, the more I ride with better riders, the better I get at a quicker pace. I have a fast learning curve and I intend to use it =)
The concept of following a better snowboarder vs a motorcyclist starts and ends there - at just the "following" part.

Read CoolDaddyGroove's post, he explains it very well: http://www.bcsportbikes.com/forum/showthread.php?17792-Rhubarb-(Newbs-Please-Read)&p=1564046&viewfull=1#post1564046.

I hope you don't take my comment negatively or get offended by it because that's not my intention; but there's a lot more risk in riding a motorcycle vs snowboarding IMO.

Hopefully, I'll see you out in one of the few remaining group rides on BCSB! :thumbup

Cheers,
Mick
 

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The Silver Power Ranger
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237 Posts
No, no offence taken. I'm not here on ego, I'm fuelled by a thirst for knowledge, and you can't learn if your heads already full.
I will see you on BCSB rides for sure, I plan on attending as many as possible.
 

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NOOOOOB
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2,631 Posts
Most new riders stop the learning process after they get a class 6.


They would rather spend $$$ and time on bike farkle and starbucks cards, than a few hours in a parking lot.
 

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Vroom Vrooom
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166 Posts
Most new riders stop the learning process after they get a class 6.


They would rather spend $$$ and time on bike farkle and starbucks cards, than a few hours in a parking lot.
FACK YEAH!!! Learning is for pussies....besides I'm a chicken hehe
 

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Banned
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5,231 Posts
Hey, Hein: was it not you who ordered those Rizoma valve stem covers?
 

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NOOOOOB
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2,631 Posts
Nono, must be that asian guy from richmond on a sportbike.

I got the hand knitted 600 count thread silk, brake fluid pee cup wrapper with gold random logos.
 

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Registered
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143 Posts
Finally got through the 15 pages of this thread. It was a very good read, thanks to CDG for posting this and keeping it alive.

As a newbie myself I have avoided group rides with the exception of 8 rides with people I know and trust. I haven't been on a BCSB ride yet because of some negative things I've heard. It sounds like age is the common denominator or maturity (usually in line with age however). None of the rides I've been on have had a rider down. None of the rides organized by friends who are experienced riders have had a rider down (probably hundreds between them over the years)

It seems that organizing a group ride on a public forum there is an inherent risk of an unknown rider causing problems. I think the way CDG and other experienced riders feel is very justified. Honestly if I was them I simply wouldn't organize newb friendly rides. However, without somebody taking the lead and offering this great service a lot of new riders will miss out. All newbs should be grateful for these opportunities. Seems like if things continue the way they have these opportunities will be far and few between.

As mentioned in a previous post, maybe an audition isn't a bad idea.

Thanks again for posting this
 

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countdown to next crash..
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2,658 Posts
its a great read for a newbie like me as well.

The only ride I've been on and really enjoyed was the monday gelato ride up the s2s. Well organized and a lot of fun. We had one rider who was crowding a buddy of mine on the ride for a bit until that rider pulled off and went his own way. Otherwise it was a good time and I'm looking to do it again probably this coming monday
 

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790 Posts
I remember reading this thread when I started riding last year...and I still have yet to ever join a group ride (13,000 km later) maybe in part because of this thread, I'm not sure, or maybe because I don't like people criticizing my choice in gelato... tough to say....
 
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