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Good post and i totally agree with you as well Navi. I value my life and have no intentions of trying to push my limits. I am here to learn and just enjoy riding and make some new friends in the process. Stay safe :)
 

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Few have already tasted it unfortunately.
Rhubarb pie is not nearly as delicious as some on this site will lead you to believe, ask me how I know...


From one newb to many others, remember these two things; you do not have a single thing to prove to yourself or anyone else on the road and know when to leave a ride.

Trying to prove to the more experienced riders that you are an awesome rider deserving of a gold star by riding at or past your limits will put you in more trouble than you think. Trying to keep up with a fast paced group as a newbie can be a fatal mistake, if the group is a good one, they'll wait up for you and if they don't, fuck em.

If you just aren't feeling the ride then go home. Trying to pull off a group ride when you are tired or are having trouble concentrating can turn messy for yourself, your bike and others around you. There's plenty of rides going on, missing one in order to be alive to catch the next 15 or 20 is worth it and you'll only be respected for it. (Just make sure that if you do leave a ride, you let someone know so that the group doesn't spend the rest of the night looking in ditches for you)

What I've witnessed in the short 2 months that I've been riding is that the more experienced folks admire the newbs who know when to back off (go at their own pace or leave a ride) as opposed to those who end up guard rail surfing trying to prove something.
 

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Rhubarb pie is not nearly as delicious as some on this site will lead you to believe, ask me how I know...


From one newb to many others, remember these two things; you do not have a single thing to prove to yourself or anyone else on the road and know when to leave a ride.

Trying to prove to the more experienced riders that you are an awesome rider deserving of a gold star by riding at or past your limits will put you in more trouble than you think. Trying to keep up with a fast paced group as a newbie can be a fatal mistake, if the group is a good one, they'll wait up for you and if they don't, fuck em.

If you just aren't feeling the ride then go home. Trying to pull off a group ride when you are tired or are having trouble concentrating can turn messy for yourself, your bike and others around you. There's plenty of rides going on, missing one in order to be alive to catch the next 15 or 20 is worth it and you'll only be respected for it. (Just make sure that if you do leave a ride, you let someone know so that the group doesn't spend the rest of the night looking in ditches for you)

What I've witnessed in the short 2 months that I've been riding is that the more experienced folks admire the newbs who know when to back off (go at their own pace or leave a ride) as opposed to those who end up guard rail surfing trying to prove something.
This is precisely a reason I havent joined any "newbie" friendly rides so far, like monday gelato ride. Not sure what happened to these, but they seemed to have turned from nice slow rides practicing skills and getting helpful tips from experienced riders to just another run to squamish. There was a "newbie" ride yesterday and apparently one person almost binned it. I was hoping of joining one of these, but as I said it seems like it has lost the main objective, and that was to point out mistakes, and provide pointers to new riders who are willing to listen.
 

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This is precisely a reason I havent joined any "newbie" friendly rides so far, like monday gelato ride. Not sure what happened to these, but they seemed to have turned from nice slow rides practicing skills and getting helpful tips from experienced riders to just another run to squamish. There was a "newbie" ride yesterday and apparently one person almost binned it. I was hoping of joining one of these, but as I said it seems like it has lost the main objective, and that was to point out mistakes, and provide pointers to new riders who are willing to listen.
My approach so far has been to ride behind someone with a few more seasons than me and learn from them the proper positioning on the bike, proper entry speeds into corners and all sorts of other details. While I've done two and a quarter group rides with over 8 bikes, I did not find them as relaxing as my usual group rides with a max of 2 other bikes.

* The 1/4 group ride was one I left on my own when I was having trouble concentrating/staying awake.
 

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This is precisely a reason I havent joined any "newbie" friendly rides so far, like monday gelato ride. Not sure what happened to these, but they seemed to have turned from nice slow rides practicing skills and getting helpful tips from experienced riders to just another run to squamish. There was a "newbie" ride yesterday and apparently one person almost binned it. I was hoping of joining one of these, but as I said it seems like it has lost the main objective, and that was to point out mistakes, and provide pointers to new riders who are willing to listen.
You should head out to one of the trackdays at Ridge Meadows. Though there won't be any 'material' related to street and traffic awareness, you will learn a lot about how your bike handles at threshold. It's a safe place with lots of friendly people to provide feedback as well. Great fun, good learning experience, and money well invested IMHO.
 

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My approach so far has been to ride behind someone with a few more seasons than me and learn from them the proper positioning on the bike, proper entry speeds into corners and all sorts of other details. While I've done two and a quarter group rides with over 8 bikes, I did not find them as relaxing as my usual group rides with a max of 2 other bikes.

* The 1/4 group ride was one I left on my own when I was having trouble concentrating/staying awake.
Unfortunately I dont think that monday newbie rides would allow me to do that. Seeing some videos and reading post ride reports, it always comes down to: Went 20+ over the limit, everyone is just riding in staggered formation and keeping to their lane position (person riding in 1 never moves into lane position 2 or 3 for ex) brake lights lighting up on every bike a split second before going too fast into every turn and so on. In all honesty I dont think i need to follow a group of riders to learn what not to do. I can do that on my own lol.

And it seems like most of the riders joining these now are people that have way to much of an ego and feel like they have something to prove and show off to the new riders. A while ago when people like Hilton for example were part of these, from what I heard pace was speed limit, or below and everyone took their time and worked on the skills. Now as I said it's a cannonball run almost.

I do want to join track days, but everyone said that it's not greatest idea for a brand new rider. Wait a season and get some skills before attempting it, and thats the plan for now :)
 

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Discussion Starter #230
............... A while ago when people like Hilton for example were part of these, from what I heard pace was speed limit, or below and everyone took their time and worked on the skills. Now as I said it's a cannonball run almost.
On the contrary, the Monday night rides still (1) break up the group into "fast" and "slow groups, and (2) have a sweeper rider at the back.

I'm not sure what new riders are really expecting on a group ride. It sounds like you are looking for riding instructions. No one here is going to "offer" to train you. You need to figure this out on your own. You need to take the initiative and ASK! And by that I mean, go back to my original post in 2003

Finally - communicate! Talk to us! Ask us anything except dumbass questions like "how fast have you gone?" or "how do you get the front wheel off the ground?" I remember early on I would sit in Squamish after a spirited ride up and ask questions from the more experienced like:

"So when hanging off the seat in a corner. Where should my head be? Behind the windscreen or behind my mirror?

"If I have to slow down a little but while I am in the corner, what's the best/safest way?"

"What line is the better line through a right hander? A left hander?"

These are smart questions...............

Most importantly tell us how that last series of corners felt. Any wobbles? Too fast? Too slow? Run wide a bit? Maybe ask a more esperienced rider to follow you for a little while and at the next stop give you some pointers on style, choice of lines, etc.
 

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Everything I have learned came from seeking out the knowledge. Not from someone walking over and saying "Hey Shane! Want to be the next Joey Dunlop!?"

A lot of people over the years have taught me new things when I asked.

Just last week I had an 11 year old teaching me a better line through turn 7/8 at GMR. That was humbling...but I picked up a second a lap.
 

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Dam I got old fast
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Hi my name is Stephen and I normally sweep on the Monday Neub ride and my goal is to give the very new riders the opportunity to ride to Squamish , where they won't be left behind, I can watch to see if they are making any obvious mistakes. Yes I block cars on merge point's so cars don't cut into the group, yes I have stopped people when they have put their life at risk, yes I have sat with a rider that had a melt-down and it took 2 hrs to get back to Vancouver.

Once they have ridden 3 or 4 times, most move on to a little faster pace with other people they have met on the ride's, they haven't crashed, they have seen some faster riders pass us, unfortunately they have seen crashed riders laying in a pool of blood but that drives it home that Motorcycling is a unforgiving, so learn the basic's. Take a advanced riding course or a track day, there is lot's to learn.

Last Monday was a good example, the slower group spread out and I rode with only 2 riders, speed limit yup, indexing corners yup, tapping brakes at posted speed in corners yup. Have a coffee and a chat about their riding and on the way back 20 km faster. What's the difference, nerve's about riding with new people, riding the highway, not knowing what to expect or what is expected of them. It's amazing how nervous stress neutralizes a persons ability to function, reduce the stress and then you see what the person can actually do on the bike.

Top 5 New riders skills we say over and over

This year we have seen some very new rider's advance their skills quickly, I feel in part by being shown the basic skills of road riding and being part of the rides where the conversation is about the finer points the information is easier to relate to, understand and remember. We are not talking trail braking, backing it in or wheelies, we stay with the basic top 5 skill's that we see new riders
need to have.

No-1- Maintain a comfortable level of focus ( no day dreaming), no death grip on the bar's, keep your arms relaxed, support your weight with your core not your hands. Light but firm grip so you feel the steering input and feed-back without transferring all motion into your neck and head.

No-2-Understand where the corner starts, keep your head up and aim to ride a smooth curve through the corner maintaining your lane position as you look where you want to go.

No-3-In a corner look 2 meters to the inside of the rider in-front of you so you maintain a awareness of the whole corner and your line and not use the rider in-front as a reference point. If they drive off the road you don't want to follow.

No-4-No braking in corners, set your speed before the corner, ride the first half steady then a little throttle for the second half as you exit. Your tires do 1 thing at a time well, braking to much while leaned over will result in a low-side, front washing out -to much front brake, back coming around if the rear brake breaks the rear tire loose, also if you let off the rear brake when the back is hung out the tire can grab and launch you into a deadly high-side up over top of the bike.

No-5-Don't chase after or push yourself to keep up to anyone, no running red-lights, no cutting off cars to stay with a group. Know where the ride is going so if there is no sweeper you can meet-up at your own pace.
A common accident starts with a new rider falling back on a series of corners, then going fast on a straight stretch to catch up, they miss-judge the corner-start and entry speed they try to make a abrupt correction( brake or lean), realize they are in danger, target fixate on a car/rock/ditch/concrete barricade and crash right into the hazard they should avoid.

In closing it is reasonable as a new rider to request 1 person stay with you if you feel riding alone at night on a curvy road will stress you to a point where your abilities to ride your bike will be affected. If no-one in the group is considerate of you personal safety, you are riding with the wrong people!
 

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On the contrary, the Monday night rides still (1) break up the group into "fast" and "slow groups, and (2) have a sweeper rider at the back.

I'm not sure what new riders are really expecting on a group ride. It sounds like you are looking for riding instructions. No one here is going to "offer" to train you. You need to figure this out on your own. You need to take the initiative and ASK! And by that I mean, go back to my original post in 2003
Yeah I know that they break it up into 2 groups, but fast group is going impound speeds, and slow group is going 20+, passing cars over double yellows and so on. This is from what I saw in few videos I found, and from what other new riders told me that joined it.

I ask questions on here whenever I have them. i search for videos and read up as much as I can, and then i practice that when i ride. I dont expect anyone to hold my hand and provide instructions, but having someone who is more knowledgeable and knows how to ride (what that rider on the island was doing last year, or whenever it was, is not knowing how to ride in my opinion) following me for a bit, and then providing feedback would be good. As I said, unfortunately I think that monday rides as they are now have alot more of the i am riding at warp speed, passing cars like an idiot, showing these newbies how sick my riding is, then slower rides where newbies can ride at their pace and ask smart questions like you talked about. FF got impounded on a monday ride if I am not mistaken, and that, plus stories from others and videos, tells me all I need to know about what riders are there.

As I said i dont need someoene to show me how to be an idiot on the road or provide me with false answers to my good questions. I need someone who actually knows how to ride well to ask questions, and get good and proper answers from :)

I could be all wrong on my assumptions, but as I said form what I heard and saw I dont think I am. However if I am wrong, I apologize.
 

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Nice rule to follow.

For every $ you spend on fancy spancy gear, you should be spending same amount on training/courses/trackdays.
 

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Yeah I know that they break it up into 2 groups, but fast group is going impound speeds, and slow group is going 20+, passing cars over double yellows and so on. This is from what I saw in few videos I found, and from what other new riders told me that joined it.

I ask questions on here whenever I have them. i search for videos and read up as much as I can, and then i practice that when i ride. I dont expect anyone to hold my hand and provide instructions, but having someone who is more knowledgeable and knows how to ride (what that rider on the island was doing last year, or whenever it was, is not knowing how to ride in my opinion) following me for a bit, and then providing feedback would be good. As I said, unfortunately I think that monday rides as they are now have alot more of the i am riding at warp speed, passing cars like an idiot, showing these newbies how sick my riding is, then slower rides where newbies can ride at their pace and ask smart questions like you talked about. FF got impounded on a monday ride if I am not mistaken, and that, plus stories from others and videos, tells me all I need to know about what riders are there.

As I said i dont need someoene to show me how to be an idiot on the road or provide me with false answers to my good questions. I need someone who actually knows how to ride well to ask questions, and get good and proper answers from :)

I could be all wrong on my assumptions, but as I said form what I heard and saw I dont think I am. However if I am wrong, I apologize.
For what you are looking for, Group rides are not for you.
If you want feedback, go with no more than 2 people, one in the front to show you the lines and act as a guide,
and one at the rear to observe what you are doing.
Feedback sessions here and there.
 

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For what you are looking for, Group rides are not for you.
If you want feedback, go with no more than 2 people, one in the front to show you the lines and act as a guide,
and one at the rear to observe what you are doing.
Feedback sessions here and there.
Thats what I figured, but hearing it from you makes me certain my thought process on this is right one for me. I dont think group rides are bad, and I do plan on joining some in the future. Bottom line is I do not want to get into a situation where I ask someone a good question, and person thinking his/her riding is good, when it is not, gives me what they think is proper answer. I then follow wrong advice and learn things wrong way.
 

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Judging by your post time you didn't have the opportunity to read FZrrr's post before you posted.

There is virtually ALWAYS someone at the back on the Monday night ride sweeping that will do exactly what you are asking for be it Stephen, me or someone else. We are doing the speed limit or less or more correctly; we are travelling at the slowest riders pace no matter how slow or fast. We are not trying to turn you into a racer but rather to help keep you alive. It doesn't matter if the entire group ends up doing 300 kms/hr and all get impounded; if you ride YOUR pace no matter how slow, one of us will be with you. No one at the back is double line passing etc. But like CDG said; you need to ask and you need to listen. There have been a few riders that don't want to listen and only want to know how to go faster.

My advice to anyone jioning a group ride for the first time is to be at the very back. You can always move forward if your skills are above the riders in front of you. No one should be fearfull of the Monday night ride!
Just make sure you are at the back and introduce yourself to the sweepers and let them know of your concerns! Hey! It's how we get free coffee & gelato! (Hint, hint!)


Yeah I know that they break it up into 2 groups, but fast group is going impound speeds, and slow group is going 20+, passing cars over double yellows and so on. This is from what I saw in few videos I found, and from what other new riders told me that joined it.

I ask questions on here whenever I have them. i search for videos and read up as much as I can, and then i practice that when i ride. I dont expect anyone to hold my hand and provide instructions, but having someone who is more knowledgeable and knows how to ride (what that rider on the island was doing last year, or whenever it was, is not knowing how to ride in my opinion) following me for a bit, and then providing feedback would be good. As I said, unfortunately I think that monday rides as they are now have alot more of the i am riding at warp speed, passing cars like an idiot, showing these newbies how sick my riding is, then slower rides where newbies can ride at their pace and ask smart questions like you talked about. FF got impounded on a monday ride if I am not mistaken, and that, plus stories from others and videos, tells me all I need to know about what riders are there.

As I said i dont need someoene to show me how to be an idiot on the road or provide me with false answers to my good questions. I need someone who actually knows how to ride well to ask questions, and get good and proper answers from :)

I could be all wrong on my assumptions, but as I said form what I heard and saw I dont think I am. However if I am wrong, I apologize.
 

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Thats what I figured, but hearing it from you makes me certain my thought process on this is right one for me. I dont think group rides are bad, and I do plan on joining some in the future. Bottom line is I do not want to get into a situation where I ask someone a good question, and person thinking his/her riding is good, when it is not, gives me what they think is proper answer. I then follow wrong advice and learn things wrong way.
Then pick and choose whom you pose the question to. It's not hard to show up at a ride and instantly identify the squids, noobs and big egos. It's equally easy to spot the experienced riders. There are a ton of people on this forum whom you can learn from, and many of them do attend the "regular" rides, or post other rides themselves. Heck, pretty much anyone with a few thousand posts count on here will have something to teach you - it's pretty damn hard to be here that long and not learn something you can pass on. Perhaps, when meeting someone, your first question should be "how many posts do you have on BCSB?" :laughing
 

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Fastronaut
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Group rides suck.

If you want to travel with a large group of like minded people get on the bus.
 

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Group rides suck.

If you want to travel with a large group of like minded people get on the bus.
Not always. They can be a lot of fun when you're riding with experienced people that have good heads on their shoulders. Especially when you all have headsets and can communicate. Collectively covering one eye and screaming ARRRR every time a Harley passes by, and detailing your Rossi-like-moves mid corner can be very entertaining. :laughing
 
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