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Registered Luser
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Discussion Starter #1
I was gonna post this in that thread, but it got all rambly, and I didn't want to bump
That bullshit back to the top anyway:

As of thursday night, rider was in critical condition and "not expected to live". Fluid/bleeding in the brain, induced into a coma.

Not saying that it would have saved him, but I would never ride without a full face.
I wasn't going to comment on an another highly instructional rider down thread, but enough is enough.
God forbid you make a mistake that lands you in hospital only to have a bunch of 'experts' analyze what a loser you must have been to end up crashed and dying, and how they, with their superior skills, judgement and gear choice, would be way less likely to end up in the same position.
The thinly veiled implication is always that the unfortunate party somehow deserved what they got. People deserve to die for abusing children. No one deserves to die for a momentary lack of judgement in twisting their wrist a little extra.

I tend to goof around on this site, but I think the mods should really attend to this.
Just spitballing an idea, but how about a rider down sticky where you can post a link to a news story and nothing more, and/or you only make rider down threads about yourself or a close personal friend.

Or, you know, as you were. Not our grieving families that might read this right.

Now that I wrote all that I don't know if I actually care or if I'm just projecting what normal people should care about. And on the other hand, is te internet, and if we can't read everyone's brilliant insights here, I'm sure we can find them on Facebook or in the CBC comments section. Guess it comes down to whether we, as the 'bcsb community' want to be different from internets at large.
 

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BCSB Public Relations
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I didn't interpret anything in that thread as the rider having "deserved" what he got. On the contrary, most of the comments - mine included - read as "if you make bad choices, bad things will eventually happen". Action & consequence.

If any good can come from such a tragic event, it's that some other rider will read that thread and choose to make better choices. One of the few times peer pressure may have a positive effect.

And let's not forget that the rider was not the only party involved. Regardless of who was legally at fault, the driver of the car will not be leaving with a clean conscience or bill of health. They both had parts to play in what happened, and both suffered for it.
 

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100% Asshole
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I have never posted a rider down thread or responded to one? I'm pretty sure I've never responded to one since I've been here (1995) as in feel they are in poor taste. Like sAdam people Fuck up and there is no need for us to "figure" out what happened. Shit happens and that's that...
 

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Intent is to remind of the importance of smart decisions and situation awareness.

One life saved is worth it. I, myself, have used this as a reminder to stay focused.

Please make one about myself if i ever go down, then atleast there will be some sort of benefit to my misfortune.

If you're too sensitive, or offended, dont click on the thread. Title clearly explained content.
 

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lover of twins
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6,070 Posts
God forbid you make a mistake that lands you in hospital only to have a bunch of 'experts' analyze what a loser you must have been to end up crashed and dying, and how they, with their superior skills, judgement and gear choice, would be way less likely to end up in the same position.
The thinly veiled implication is always that the unfortunate party somehow deserved what they got. People deserve to die for abusing children. No one deserves to die for a momentary lack of judgement in twisting their wrist a little extra.
i don't think the thinly veiled implication is that the rider deserved what they got, but that doing reckless stuff on a motorcycle means one stands a better chance of getting hurt, maimed or killed than not doing reckless stuff. kerunt is right that at some point we as riders and as a "community" need to take responsibility for the way we conduct ourselves.

we don't know all the facts yet for the incident in question, but reports indicate this rider was skyward and travelling at high rate of speed in a residential neighbourhood. what we do know is that motorcycles are difficult to see at the best of times and when travelling at a higher rate of speed they're even harder to see and to judge their closing speed/distance. another thing we do know is that acting irresponsibly or making mistakes on a motorcycle is more likely to get you killed than riding responsibly. i don't think it should be celebrated, excused or ignored if someone's actions puts their own life or the lives of others in danger, especially if those actions are reckless.
 

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No one likes rider down threads. If someone learns one thing that may save a life, its worth it.

For instance, I read a post recently where someone went down and would have slid on his chin had it not been for his full face hat. So I decided to retire my much loved open face. When you have a mug like mine you have to look after it. :laughing
 

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There's a clear double standard for rider down threads. If the rider is know on this site, and especially if the incident happened on a group ride and someone else can report on the circumstances, there's never criticism or analysis.

But if it's "unknown rider" with a few questionable details, the BCSB accident reconstruction team is in full effect.

There have also been instances in the years past of an unknown rider down thread and the accompanying armchair analysis, then a friend or family member comes on this forum to supply some details and gets to see what we really think of riders we don't know. Not too classy.

I don't think there's any merit to analyzing what might have happened. If you want to know what type of riding causes accidents, there's plenty of footage online.

What I do find very useful are the threads where the rider down is the OP. Here's what I did, here's what the result was, please learn from my mistake.

But, this discussion pops up every few years and I don't expect that to change.
 

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Registered Luser
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Discussion Starter #8
Well it doesn't save one life, and if it does I think a news article link will be just as life saving. The bcsb accident reconstruction team is not a value add in terms of lifesaving.
I think it's a problem of an empathy disconnect. Any RIP thread I have seen for a bcsb member has been 100% respectful. If there was any hint of the typical derogatory accident analysis, the thread has been scrubbed and reminders issued to be respectful.

I'm not saying that the folks posting these are bad people. Sympathy/empathy naturally diminishes with degree of separation. It's the defence mechanism that allows us to toot around on motorbikes while people in third world shit holes starve to death and get slaughtered. I just propose we extend that empathy one more degree to riders in general if we propose to be any type of motorcycle community.

I thought this might be one of those ideas that seems obvious only after you hear it, but judging by most of the responses thus far I appear to be mistaken.
 

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lover of twins
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Well it doesn't save one life, and if it does I think a news article link will be just as life saving. The bcsb accident reconstruction team is not a value add in terms of lifesaving.
I think it's a problem of an empathy disconnect. Any RIP thread I have seen for a bcsb member has been 100% respectful. If there was any hint of the typical derogatory accident analysis, the thread has been scrubbed and reminders issued to be respectful.

I'm not saying that the folks posting these are bad people. Sympathy/empathy naturally diminishes with degree of separation. It's the defence mechanism that allows us to toot around on motorbikes while people in third world shit holes starve to death and get slaughtered. I just propose we extend that empathy one more degree to riders in general if we propose to be any type of motorcycle community.

I thought this might be one of those ideas that seems obvious only after you hear it, but judging by most of the responses thus far I appear to be mistaken.
how do you know it doesn't save a life or cause people to question their own judgement? have you done a survey to figure that out? at least one person in this thread has admitted it brings them pause for reflection and i can say for myself it has that effect as well. i can agree that it is an empathy disconnect, but it happens for more reasons than you listed. poor riding behaviour can also read to empathy disconnect. if someone i knew here died because they were riding like an idiot i wouldn't have any less empathy for the person, but i wouldn't have any more for their poor choice of riding habits. the condemnations here are not of the person per sey, but their riding style of choice in the moment of the accident.

riding a sportbike on the edge is not a fucking video game, it's real life with real consequences including potentially hurting people besides yourself. whether it's impaired driving/riding, distracted driving/riding or jackassery riding/driving letting people off the hook for those behaviours simply sends the unitended message that those type of behaviours are acceptable. sorry, but in my books they aren't.
 

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lover of twins
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i'd also add that a number of people also want to understand how/why these things happen to help make sense of it all. it's similar to all the rubbernecking that happens when there's a crash somewhere; people participant in the same activity and therefore feel an inherent connection to it and the crash itself. i think this partly answers the need for people to figure out what happened because they relate to it so well themselves. face it, we're on a website for sportbike enthusiasts and many, if not most of us push the limits at one time or another (hopefully in a time/place appropriate manner) so when we see this sort of thing there is a bit of an inherent need to understand it all.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20020610&slug=gawk10
 

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sAdam, i agree there is never any point in dissecting, speculating and reconstructing an incident but whats good about said threads is that they remind people to be wary that shit does go wrong. It could be recklessness on the riders part but mostly it due to other motorists on the road.

So ride safely, wear proper gear to give yourself a fighting chance and take precautions.

Even with everything said and done, when shit has to happen, nothing can stop it from happening and thats the sad fact of life.
 

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sAdam, i agree there is never any point in dissecting, speculating and reconstructing an incident but whats good about said threads is that they remind people to be wary that shit does go wrong. It could be recklessness on the riders part but mostly it due to other motorists on the road.

So ride safely, wear proper gear to give yourself a fighting chance and take precautions.

Even with everything said and done, when shit has to happen, nothing can stop it from happening and thats the sad fact of life.
This is the biggest problem facing this forum with respect to "unknown rider" crashing.

The completely bullshit, and skewed postion that people getting hurt or killed on motorcycles are "mostly" due to other motorists.

Where do you get this idea that is the case?
 

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But if it's "unknown rider" with a few questionable details, the BCSB accident reconstruction team is in full effect.

There have also been instances in the years past of an unknown rider down thread and the accompanying armchair analysis, then a friend or family member comes on this forum to supply some details and gets to see what we really think of riders we don't know. Not too classy.
spot on!! we all generally avoid posting up any details regarding accidents which have happened on a ride because we understand how judgmental others on the board can be

i myself asked a moderator to delete my 'rider down' thread years ago as i was sick to my stomach at the childish and right down ludicrous statements posted as facts when
in fact nobody on here had the slightest fvcking clue what happened. i had the last laugh on that one, as i was cleared of any and all wrong doing; driver admitted to 100% fault
and even though it took over 3 years I was able to resolve the matter and have also managed to surpass and even exceed my own physical abilities which suffered due to said collision

much to the CHAGRIN of the BCSB accident reconstruction team i may add, i'm still here! :coffee

I don't think there's any merit to analyzing what might have happened. If you want to know what type of riding causes accidents, there's plenty of footage online.
specially when most of the analysis comes from a statement where somewhere in the general vicinity of said accident happens to be a rider and upon 'hearing' what happened blocks away,

suddenly they were standing right there with chalk on hand :surrender
 

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Bacchus40 went down because he got his laptop cord stuck in the rear sprocket.
dont joke about that stuff man... i do keep the usb cable for PC-V use rolled up under the solo cowl, almost forgot to put it back in there when i was leaving the house a week ago... lmao :coffee

God forbid you make a mistake that lands you in hospital only to have a bunch of 'experts' analyze what a loser you must have been to end up crashed and dying, and how they, with their superior skills, judgement and gear choice, would be way less likely to end up in the same position.
The thinly veiled implication is always that the unfortunate party somehow deserved what they got. People deserve to die for abusing children. No one deserves to die for a momentary lack of judgement in twisting their wrist a little extra.
thanks for posting this thread, sometimes when you're reading some of the stuff on here, its really hard to hold back from calling some folks out as its obvious there are various levels of maturity involved..

back in the day when i was heavy into competition we used to set aside weekends when all we did was go out there and get into somewhat sticky

situations on a certain hill just so we could practice our response time in case of an 'ohh fvck' moment... yes this was all on dirt bikes and no traffic or public roads were involved obviously

one thing i've noticed that is really sad with Today's modern riders, everybody thinks they already know everything there is to know about biking once they've got 40k kms on the odo..
 

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I like traffic cones :S
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This is the biggest problem facing this forum with respect to "unknown rider" crashing.

The completely bullshit, and skewed postion that people getting hurt or killed on motorcycles are "mostly" due to other motorists.

Where do you get this idea that is the case?
turning left you literally only have ONE thing to worry about and keep an eye on. the oncoming traffic.

any left turner that fails to do so at doing just that ONE thing, is at fault.
 

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i'd also add that a number of people also want to understand how/why these things happen to help make sense of it all. it's similar to all the rubbernecking that happens when there's a crash somewhere; people participant in the same activity and therefore feel an inherent connection to it and the crash itself. i think this partly answers the need for people to figure out what happened because they relate to it so well themselves. face it, we're on a website for sportbike enthusiasts and many, if not most of us push the limits at one time or another (hopefully in a time/place appropriate manner) so when we see this sort of thing there is a bit of an inherent need to understand it all.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20020610&slug=gawk10
People rubberneck at accidents so they can get to work and say "I saw this crazy accident!".

And I don't see what we can understand from analyzing incomplete and likely incorrect information anyway.
 

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lover of twins
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turning left you literally only have ONE thing to worry about and keep an eye on. the oncoming traffic.

any left turner that fails to do so at doing just that ONE thing, is at fault.
that's not entirely true. it's not always entirely the fault of the left turner.
 

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lover of twins
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People rubberneck at accidents so they can get to work and say "I saw this crazy accident!".

And I don't see what we can understand from analyzing incomplete and likely incorrect information anyway.
it's not so much what one understands, but an inherent need to try and understand the event or simply make sense of things if you will.
 

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Fastronaut
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Rider down and RIP thread serve only one purpose to me. How can I not be that rider.

All you saintly and sanctimonious folks need to give your heads a shake. Who wins in a case of dead right? Sure a left turner shouldn't violate your personal space but they do it. They do it to my big white truck; some German chick did it to a battle tank.

Anyone who cares to can check the stats. The greatest danger to riders is ourselves. Sure there will always be the one in a million rear enders and other YouTube fodder but I'll take that bet.

If you can't suppress your ego when talking about it how can you do it while riding?
 
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