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Fwiw I ran a set of sena smh10's for a couple of years doing residential tree work. *Beat the living hell out of them, soaked on a regular basis. Never had any issues with battery life or waterproofness.*

My riding partner is my wife and I'm really wrestling with the practicality/reality of being in each other's ear during a ride. *
 

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If you want to pair using "universal" communications, someone has to give up the "phone" connection. that means that you cannot have your phone paired to either a Sena or a Cardo, as the universal communications uses a phone connection as universal. One of the units emulates a phone BT connection and you connect that way.

So think about that...

you bought a unit so you can have phone/music/maps in your ears. bonus is that you can talk to other riders. want to talk to someone on a different system? No problem, give up phone calls/music/maps and you can talk to them. What is the range of BT to a phone? Well, typically a phone is a BT class 2 device. You get 10M or 33'. How many bikes do you know that maintain a 33' distance when riding? Yeah, I'd go on a limb and call that "just doesn't work", but hey, if you had someone on the back seat, then it will work just fine between the 2 different units.

Sena communications with more than 2 units are subject to the following:
Noisy microphones
popcorn/sizzling/popping sounds at random intervals in most peoples headsets (again, never with just 2 people, but increase to 3 or more and this happens)
poor distance in BC's/Washington's/Orgeon's/California's terrain. Cardo is better, but still nowhere near as advertised.
drop out of distance and have trouble reconnecting to the group. This is even more apparent when you go beyond 4 riders in the group. the 20s are supposed to handle up to 8 riders. Good luck with that.

Other Sena issues:
not waterproof. I've had "rain fade" on the 20s and on the 10 as well. Luckily, I've not fried a unit in the rain, but have friends who did. No warranty service from Sena either.

Look, bottom line is that you need to keep in a group with the same units. When you finally get tired of shit not working on a Sena, then switch to Cardo and wonder why you didn't do it earlier. If you are just a single rider and will likely not connect to others, then any unit will work just fine. I found my Sena 20s to be fantastic with just me and music, or when paired to another 20s user (just 2 of us), the communications were great. Very HD quality and little to no noise. Again, go beyond just 2 people and the communications were shite. Pair a 10 and a 20 together...still shit, even with 2, but bearable. With the Cardo units, in the beginning we would ask "Is anyone still there?" because there was just complete silence, no mic noise, nothing. Then someone would say "yup still here" and we'd all go off on a tangent about how quiet these units are, etc.
90% of the time i'm riding by myself... the other times.. i can't recall seeing a cardo unit.. so, i guess that's that.
 

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The whole wet weather thing is hilarious. so none of the devices have actually burned due to being exposed to bad weather, but Cardo fanbois are all happy to brag theirs carries a 'warranty' for it..

uhmm.. if its not an issue to begin with? who gives a rats arse; back to square one.. oh wait, only one actually fits my helmet. :coffee
Well, I have "burned" one SENA riding in wet weather, and I believe someone else did so in my group. I still prefer the big round dial that SENA uses over the fiddly small buttons of the CARDO, but you get used to it.
 

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Fwiw I ran a set of sena smh10's for a couple of years doing residential tree work. *Beat the living hell out of them, soaked on a regular basis. Never had any issues with battery life or waterproofness.*

My riding partner is my wife and I'm really wrestling with the practicality/reality of being in each other's ear during a ride. *
Probably a big difference between getting some rain on them vs in them, which is what happens when driving rain from the speeds of a motorcycle get to them.

Like SnoDragon, I also had a Sena ruined in the rain, mind you was super heavy. They are simply not waterproof, so if this matters, something to consider.
 

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Well, I have "burned" one SENA riding in wet weather, and I believe someone else did so in my group. I still prefer the big round dial that SENA uses over the fiddly small buttons of the CARDO, but you get used to it.
interesting.. thanks for chiming in!! i was hoping somebody would at least confirm rumors.. :laughing

if i stick with the Schuberth SC2 Sena, it wont be an issue for me at all.. i would, however be stuck with stupid buttons..

it does come with a remote though, so i'll have to find room for it on the bikes :thumbup

Like SnoDragon, I also had a Sena ruined in the rain, mind you was super heavy. They are simply not waterproof, so if this matters, something to consider.

thanks, i appreciate you chiming in..

*Beat the living hell out of them, soaked on a regular basis. Never had any issues with battery life or waterproofness.*
this is what i've heard the most.. we ride in wet weather from time to time but its never fun so yeah, kinda depends on exposure i guess..

most riders are fair weather hooligans as is. If we get caught out 'in it' i dont see Erik putting his away or anything so it must be doing fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
After looking at the pro's and cons I have ordered the Cardo Packtalk Slim DUO so I can have one in both my helmets. I got the model without the JBL speakers as it was $150 cheaper and that is the only difference in them after doing some digging. If I want I can buy the JBL speakers after as an add on. I do ride in the rain often and realized that I don't want to run into the issue of destroying a unit because its not water proof. I should be receiving it this week so I will see how it goes. It will be nice to not have ear buds that pop out while putting my helmet on. Super late to the comm's game but feel like this is the best bet.
 

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For those on the fence, it may be worth noting SENA released a major update at end of the year 2018..

Products with New Firmware Releasing October 8, 2018: (updates are to be found across the entire line)

30K
20S
20S Evo
Momentum INC
10S
10R
SRL (Note: A new firmware update is not available for the SRL, as it currently has support
for 30K Audio Multitasking, along with the same updates from 20S v2.0 and 20S Evo v2.0)
 

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yeah, but you cannot polish a turd, so firmware is not going to fix the bulk of the issues with noise, disconnects, etc.
 

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For those on the fence, it may be worth noting SENA released a major update at end of the year 2018..

Products with New Firmware Releasing October 8, 2018: (updates are to be found across the entire line)

30K
20S
20S Evo
Momentum INC
10S
10R
SRL (Note: A new firmware update is not available for the SRL, as it currently has support
for 30K Audio Multitasking, along with the same updates from 20S v2.0 and 20S Evo v2.0)
You've listed absolutely nothing of value, yet somehow this should be considered a motivation to buy? basically- BNG !!!
 

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You've listed absolutely nothing of value, yet somehow this should be considered a motivation to buy? basically- BNG !!!
copy / paste.. folks can make up their own mind. You guys seem to have a lot of internal anger :D

i'm sorry i couldnt do all required research for you.. when i say 'on the fence' i mean there are folks reading this thread
who may already own a SENA and have some 'concerns' but not enough to warrant a full upgrade, i'm sure
one or two of 'em can figure out a firmware upgrade considering its May.

Seeing as these devices are not waterproof, its very possible most have not used them over winter :D

in electronics, when devices are having 'issues' here and there, a simple firmware upgrade tends to clear them up.

I deal with firmware all the fvcking time, and i NEVER sit there and read every line of updates.
Tech support never bothers with the long winded speech either. They literally just recommend
one file over another based on 'reports' received from other users.

A MAJOR firmware upgrade across all devices usually improves functionality, sometimes dramatically.

BNG does not apply, firmware runs the stupid thing, so unless you're painting the damn engine internals, I would say your statement is incorrect. :D

yeah, but you cannot polish a turd, so firmware is not going to fix the bulk of the issues with noise, disconnects, etc.
noise cancellation software, improvement in signal reception, system behavior improvements, etc .

when it comes to communication devices, again, we have found sometimes a simple firmware upgrade does the trick.

as posted a little ways back, people bitched about the Schuberth SC1 and SC1 Advanced.. pages of pages of early adopters .

firmware updates were slow at 1st.. but apparently at a certain point one was indeed available and magically, the bitching stopped. Imagine that,
firmware cleared 'em up . But hey look at it this way, there was a time when you bragged about the TURD you carried around attached to your head :D

you have obviously tossed the thing and bought into another system, not everybody is willing to spend their hard earned, post was meant for the latter.
 

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copy / paste.. folks can make up their own mind. You guys seem to have a lot of internal anger :D

i'm sorry i couldnt do all required research for you.. :laughing

in electronics, when devices are having 'issues' here and there, a simple firmware upgrade tends to clear them up.

I deal with firmware all the fvcking time, and i NEVER sit there and read every line of updates.
Tech support never bothers with the long winded speech either. They literally just recommend
one file over another based on 'reports' received from other users.

A MAJOR firmware upgrade across all devices usually improves functionality, sometimes dramatically.

BNG does not apply, firmware runs the stupid thing :D



noise cancellation software, improvement in signal reception, system behavior improvements, etc .

when it comes to communication devices, again, we have found sometimes a simple firmware upgrade does the trick.

as posted a little ways back, people bitched about the Schuberth SC1 and SC1 Advanced.. pages of pages of early adopters .

firmware updates were slow at 1st.. but apparently at a certain point one was indeed available and magically, the bitching stopped. Imagine that,
firmware cleared 'em up . But hey look at it this way, there was a time when you bragged about the TURD you carried around attached to your head :D

you have obviously tossed the thing and bought into another system, not everybody is willing to spend their hard earned, post was meant for the latter.
No, just another rambling post from you, that is more about you hearing your own voice, and accomplishing absolutely nothing to move the discussion forward.
 

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No, just another rambling post from you, that is more about you hearing your own voice, and accomplishing absolutely nothing to move the discussion forward.
there's that anger again. :coffee

i dont think you realize this, but my key-board does not make a sound..

as posted, i'm in electronics..
 

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I am having a hard time following how updates have nothing to do with the functionality of a electronic device. If not for improvements, what are they for?

bng? Blow n go? Wtf kind of abbreviation is that?
 

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copy / paste.. folks can make up their own mind. You guys seem to have a lot of internal anger :D

i'm sorry i couldnt do all required research for you.. when i say 'on the fence' i mean there are folks reading this thread
who may already own a SENA and have some 'concerns' but not enough to warrant a full upgrade, i'm sure
one or two of 'em can figure out a firmware upgrade considering its May.

Seeing as these devices are not waterproof, its very possible most have not used them over winter :D

in electronics, when devices are having 'issues' here and there, a simple firmware upgrade tends to clear them up.

I deal with firmware all the fvcking time, and i NEVER sit there and read every line of updates.
Tech support never bothers with the long winded speech either. They literally just recommend
one file over another based on 'reports' received from other users.

A MAJOR firmware upgrade across all devices usually improves functionality, sometimes dramatically.

BNG does not apply, firmware runs the stupid thing, so unless you're painting the damn engine internals, I would say your statement is incorrect. :D



noise cancellation software, improvement in signal reception, system behavior improvements, etc .

when it comes to communication devices, again, we have found sometimes a simple firmware upgrade does the trick.

as posted a little ways back, people bitched about the Schuberth SC1 and SC1 Advanced.. pages of pages of early adopters .

firmware updates were slow at 1st.. but apparently at a certain point one was indeed available and magically, the bitching stopped. Imagine that,
firmware cleared 'em up . But hey look at it this way, there was a time when you bragged about the TURD you carried around attached to your head :D

you have obviously tossed the thing and bought into another system, not everybody is willing to spend their hard earned, post was meant for the latter.
Dude, from your posts it seems that you're pretty new to the BT coms game. A number of experienced riders with years of experience using different units have chimed in on the benefits and shortcomings of the major players. Per your post, will a firmware update help? Sometimes. But having had a 10S (good) and a 20S Sena (shite) my experience has mirrored many others on here - the Cardo Packtalk is miles better than the newer Sena units. Be wary of riding the Sena hype-train, once you experience and utilize both to their full capabilities, you'll see that the Sena's are inferior. Enjoy giving Sena a handjob; me and my riding buds will enjoy popcorn-free noise-cancelled high fidelity blissful BT coms that will seamlessly connect, while you waste 20 minutes doing the pre-ride Sena connection shuffle. Don't say we didn't tell you so.
 

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I am having a hard time following how updates have nothing to do with the functionality of a electronic device. If not for improvements, what are they for?

bng? Blow n go? Wtf kind of abbreviation is that?
BNG = Brand New Graphics
 

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disclaimer:

if you are not interested in this post.. dont read it. :D



Dude, from your posts it seems that you're pretty new to the BT coms game..
With all do respect.

i think some folks are misunderstanding the point of the post.. there is a very real reason why i kept the post short and simple.

yes i started to look deeper into it to try and help those who cant help themselves but i decided against it.

WHY? please read the senseless arguments as a pretty damn perfect example!!

QUESTION: will a firmware upgrade help
ANSWER: PERHAPS!

QUESTION: WILL a MAJOR firmware upgrade (VERSION 2 INCLUDES bluetooth 4.1 across the entire line) HELP!?
ANSWER: IN my professional opinion ( as an electronics security systems technician), PROBABLY!


as a matter of perspective. coders are well aware the internal 'ENGINE' of the device is, how you say.. less than perfect at time of release.

otherwise, why the fvck would you pay thousands, sometimes millions of dollars to implement internal behavior adjustments?

will it make every single user happier than pig in shit? not if they are a BCSB member, that ship sailed! :laughing

now, if you are still reading.. GREAT! :D

While I am not an early adopter of this technology, (I have had my reasons) but i've had to assist my dad with his own
units over the years.. AS i mentioned i'm in electronics so when it comes to configuring and figuring little shit out
guess who's getting the call?

regardless, and please ignore the entire post (for those looking for an argument), I have had conversations with my best friends
and dad who own the very units we are discussing. Maybe their needs are different than others, as is pretty evident, but they
are happy with their devices.

NOW, for those who are hard of hearing.. no SHIT, i am into technology and the MESH system seems to be an improvement
going forward.. but that is going forward, and for people who intend to pair up with 10 TO 15 other riders!

I dont know 10 to 15 people i want to pair up with, much less do so while riding!! let alone in torrential rain!!

I am actually liking the review process a little better as those people seem to be smart enough to know there is a difference.

if a product is not 100% waterproof, will it mean a single iota to somebody who NEVER rides in the RAIN!? i will let you
think about that for a minute.. that is the EXACT response my best friend gave me!! My dad on the other hand,
has NEVER had any issues and he rides through snow, hail, fvcking storms all the time.. he does not own a 20s!!
its an older unit, the 10 series.. was the 10 series waterproof? WTF.

in MY CASE, the system i'm looking at was designed hand in hand with SENA.. but its integrated 100% WITHIN
the stupid helmet!! i'll give you another minute, DO I GIVE TWO SHITS if a 20s is not 100% waterproof? FVCK NO!

we get it, EVERYBODY that BRAGGED about SENA on this forum and every second ride wAS full of shit!! apparently IT was a shitty product this entire time.

again, regardless.. those who are happy with, are not about to fork over another 400 bucks just to have the latest and greatest!!

i will be upgrading the firmware on my Father's unit!! because that is what HE has requested of me!! :coffee
 
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