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+ 39.9 km/h
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Discussion Starter #1
Don't take this as an invite to break any rules of the road...

This week was the second time in my life I went to dispute a ticket, the first time was in 2003.
Back then it was thrown out because the officer didn't have a copy of my ticket.
See here: Ticket to ride.

This time my ticket was withdrawn. The officer spoke to me before going into the courtroom. He said he had no notes on my ticket for any rebuttal against my dispute, so he said he would ask for it to be withdrawn.

Neither court date have I been able to find out if my defense statements were valid in front of a judge.
Both times because of paperwork the result was no fines and no points added to my driving record.

So in the last 18 years not much has changed.
 

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Yup - it's quite an interesting system, eh!
 

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Interesting timing this thread. I just asked in another thread if there is any kind of statute of limitations type of thing for the crown getting a ticket to court. I have one in dispute From last spring but only have received a notice confirming they'd received my dispute but nothing further.
 

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In BC, one's right to a reasonable trial regarding traffic offences falls within an 18 month time frame, or it gets thrown out upon legal challenge (there's a legal precedent and applicable section of the traffic act that you can find by googling)
 
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I'm pretty sure it is Section 11.b
 

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Wanderer of the Wastes
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Always fight it - even when ya know you're pretty much fully stewed.

I've had cops that were downright apoplectic at the roadside really calm the fuck down 1+ years after the fact, and they (generally) tend to be much more open to reasonable human discourse outside the courtroom, looong after the adrenaline has faded. Even when pinned (more or less) dead to rights, I've always had the adjacent, superfluous charges dropped or reduced, fines waved, and points saved (that's the important bit).

over the years, this has amounted to no less than 4 no shows/throwouts, and 2 fine reductions/charge removals.

What kinda absolute chub just rolls over and takes it ?
 

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i've had all kinds.. i certainly dont get pulled over much but once every 5 years kinda sticks out so its easy to remember 'em.. i've had a popo ask me to show up in court knowing full well it would be held in Princeton, just to slap my wrist. Yep, he made it obvious this would be the case: showed up with paperwork ready to dispute only to find 3 others were all dismissed with a thank you note from said officer upon arrival.. I claimed a 'day off' at work, got paid regardless and made up the travel cost with OT a weekend after..

life sure is funny.. it was a nice drive out on a Thursday morning. lol
 

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Discussion Starter #8
It took ~six months from my ticket date to my court date.
Tickets I've had places like Alberta, Washington, and Oregon where the points on my licence weren't a factor I've just paid, plus showing up in court that far away from home is a nuisance.
I would have just paid the fine here as the cost of driving over two hours there and two hours back was a wash.
It is the ICBC Driver Penalty Point Premium that was the factor that made me dispute it.
A three point ticket would amount to no premium, but if it happens again within the next year then the ICBC penalty adds up quick.

I don't think the officer that issued my ticket displayed any anger towards me at the side of the road, he seemed pretty fair and polite.
The only advise I would say is if you are thinking about defending your actions in court don't make yourself memorable at the time.
 

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Exactly. I got quite a stern talking to during my roadside assessment and for my part I only denied going as fast as was claimed and stuck to my usual script. Yes sir, no sir, sorry sir. I also wrote a short novel on the same day covering my side of the story. I am disputing a excessive which is still only three penalty points but carries a extra bonus of a driver risk premium. Google it up, Good times. I'm over ten years ticket free besides this one alleged infraction. Seems like the government ought to just give me a pass instead of potentially asking me to go to court in Kelowna(hr'ish away) during these covid times.

the most ironic part was that he was lecturing me pretty aggressively about how dangerous my alleged 65km/HR over was yet he had just done easily much greater speeds than that in a Ford exploder to run me down. Definitely not part of my defence argument or anything but just weird. This was after looking at my 10+year ticket free and 30 year(well 29 last year) accident free driving record. Probably the lecture was as much for himself as me. To psych himself up that he was doing the right and proper thing handing me that ticket.

The only reason I had been speeding on that particular stretch of road was for safety sake. Hwy97 between Vernon and kelowa, I was following my wife on her bike and things got tight looking as she was coming up to pass a transport truck another pickup had kind of boxed itself in and I was worried she or I or both of us could get cut off so I eased back some and left a bunch of space. I then simply rolled on momentarily to catch back up at the exact wrong time. No hit on the radar until long after I had slowed back down so I'll be curious the method of speed determining used if it gets that far. I swear I got pulled and ticketed because of the detector, when he came up alongside me in the left lane he saw the radar detector. He pulled up in the left like he was going to pass us or maybe just checking us out before pulling over? Weird maneuver if so. But after pulling alongside, he then slowed up, pulled in behind and lit me up. Wife stopped as well and got no ticket whatsoever and she was in front the entire time.

I know better than to let things open up on that stretch of road so really a unfortunate day for me. But that is the day we bought my wife's ninja400.
 

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Yup, a radar detector could have triggered him. I haven't been stopped with mine but I'll be sure to cover it with my gloves or stuff it in my jacket time permitting.
I don't know if they have radar detector detection in BC. Guess not cause they're not illegal. Unidens are supposed to be invisible.
 

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I know a fellow who keeps his in his tank bag and he claims no loss of function and it stays invisible. I've considered doing the same but my mount is pretty stealthy for the most part and easily covered with gloves if pulled over. But I've never shook that feeling like he saw the detector and then decided to back off and pull me over. I've never been pulled over like that before. Regardless, it's the fun tax we have to pay here in BC.
 

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BCSB Public Relations
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Always fight it - even when ya know you're pretty much fully stewed.

I've had cops that were downright apoplectic at the roadside really calm the fuck down 1+ years after the fact, and they (generally) tend to be much more open to reasonable human discourse outside the courtroom, looong after the adrenaline has faded. Even when pinned (more or less) dead to rights, I've always had the adjacent, superfluous charges dropped or reduced, fines waved, and points saved (that's the important bit).

over the years, this has amounted to no less than 4 no shows/throwouts, and 2 fine reductions/charge removals.

What kinda absolute chub just rolls over and takes it ?
There's no one size fits all answer to every solution.

The ticket I got last August: caught dead to rights at nearly (if not over - can't remember) impound speeds. Perfectly polite, professional RCMP officer; said I have a great driving record, dropped the ticket right there and then to the lowest fine he could have given me. First ticket I've gotten in some 5-7 years. An hour of my billable time is more than the cost of that ticket. Not enough ticket "points" to trigger any further penalties. Why would I bother disputing it and wasting at a minimum several hours of my time?
 

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There's no one size fits all answer to every solution.

The ticket I got last August: caught dead to rights at nearly (if not over - can't remember) impound speeds. Perfectly polite, professional RCMP officer; said I have a great driving record, dropped the ticket right there and then to the lowest fine he could have given me. The first ticket I've gotten in some 5-7 years. An hour of my billable time is more than the cost of that ticket. Not enough ticket "points" to trigger any further penalties. Why would I bother disputing it and wasting at minimum several hours of my time?
When you're wrong, it's best to take it like a man, especially if you already got a break. You're making the right decision but frankly dude you got no other choice. Like if you show up and the dude shows up too, then best you disappear/run away and not go in cos appearing in front of the court won't work in your favor.... most likely.

On the other hand, you can gamble that the nice cop won't show up, but then again for you, he probably would make sure he does.... most likely.

Nice story about the billable hours, but that matter not in your context but cool story bro. Why even bother thinking about disputing in your situation, that's my question.... hahahah

And if this is your first ticket in 5 to 7 years, guess your luck is coming to an end... i'd be careful riding this riding season. I don't know, in my experience, (wrong a lot of the times), when shit starts happening better read sings if nothing else raise up your awareness. Your sloppiness in getting caught at such high speed is kinda sad and needs to be addressed. :p

But who am I to say anything?? ✌
 

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My point was that DNA's suggestion to "always" fight it is not as black & white as he suggests. Beneficial in many cases, sure, but not always.
 

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Wanderer of the Wastes
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Exception to every rule. Important to acknowledge when you're being given a friendly handy with a wink and a smile, instead of just being fucked outright. My point is, it never hurts to ask for some grease...
 

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Here’s a couple of thoughts about roadside chats:
1 - no one cares how long you have been ticket free. We all know it’s just because you haven’t been caught.
2 - please, oh please make that argument that 65 over was for ”safety’s sake” to the justice, that’s always a fun show to watch.
3 - “he had to speed to catch me” ranks as the most moronic statement made. This isn’t just the OP, plenty of people say it and think it is some legal epiphany they are making. It isn’t.

Your disputed charge needs to be in front of a justice within 18 months. A few years back hundreds of tickets were thrown out as they had exceeded that time limit. As someone else said, it’s Sec 11(b) of the Charter with R vs. Jordan as the case law.
 
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Maybe what you missed is I wasn't 65 over, there's no way I was and was still behind my wife's n300 the whole time. No method of speed determining was given at the time and as you and most on here know I ride with radar all the time. And when the radar went off I was already back to the speed limit. So I will be curious if I do get a court date and then request disclosure how exactly the speed was determined. And if you can't see the irony in getting a lecture on how dangerous my maneuver was when that cop probably reached upwards of 180-200 from a standstill on the side of the road to catch up to us as fast as he could in a fucking exploder on hwy97.

Your antagonistic and self righteous response above 'please oh please make the argument' is exactly what breeds dislike of police speed enforcement. You must be able to shoot your radar far and wide from atop that high horse.

I'd be curious your thoughts on whether you think my stop was based on the police officer coming along side and seeing my radar detector? Would you commonly pull up alongside someone before backing off pulling in behind and then lighting up and stopping them?

I know the rules of the game and my defence is based on the fact that I wasn't excessive speeding. Now you point fun or disdain at the argument of speeding to avoid danger. But on a single lane highway is it not true that you are allowed to momentarily exceed the speed limit to safely execute a pass in a designated passing zone? Because that's what I was doing on a double lane highway. You think it would've been safer in my described situation to have just kept right in formation with my wife and risked her or i being cutoff. You also think it's safer to ever so slowly pass a loaded semi so as not to 'speed'. Leaving more time in what I would consider the bite, at risk to blind spot, insecure load/straps, tire blowout, debris kick up, etc, etc.

Anyways, your insights from the other team are always appreciated by me still the same.
 

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And you or any of your colleagues may not give a shit about my driving record but I do. 30years accident free. From full license a month after turning sixteen. Countless potential accidents avoided by always being a super attentive driver, never driving in autopilot, always 'on'. My dad drilled into me driving skills from before I could even reach the pedals myself. Long before I was licensed I could drive better than most I see on the road firm in the belief still to this day that it is the single most dangerous and biggest responsibility that a person has in their day to day life.

BC has had a 'war on speed' most of my adult life using it as justification for ever increasing fines and insurance rates. But the single biggest factor to affect road safety in my lifetime has been the covid. Laughable. Enforcement should be geared towards intoxicated drivers, distracted and inattentive drivers. But obviously that's not my call.
 

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Maybe what you missed is I wasn't 65 over, there's no way I was and was still behind my wife's n300 the whole time. No method of speed determining was given at the time and as you and most on here know I ride with radar all the time. And when the radar went off I was already back to the speed limit. So I will be curious if I do get a court date and then request disclosure how exactly the speed was determined. And if you can't see the irony in getting a lecture on how dangerous my maneuver was when that cop probably reached upwards of 180-200 from a standstill on the side of the road to catch up to us as fast as he could in a fucking exploder on hwy97.

Your antagonistic and self righteous response above 'please oh please make the argument' is exactly what breeds dislike of police speed enforcement. You must be able to shoot your radar far and wide from atop that high horse.

I'd be curious your thoughts on whether you think my stop was based on the police officer coming along side and seeing my radar detector? Would you commonly pull up alongside someone before backing off pulling in behind and then lighting up and stopping them?

I know the rules of the game and my defence is based on the fact that I wasn't excessive speeding. Now you point fun or disdain at the argument of speeding to avoid danger. But on a single lane highway is it not true that you are allowed to momentarily exceed the speed limit to safely execute a pass in a designated passing zone? Because that's what I was doing on a double lane highway. You think it would've been safer in my described situation to have just kept right in formation with my wife and risked her or i being cutoff. You also think it's safer to ever so slowly pass a loaded semi so as not to 'speed'. Leaving more time in what I would consider the bite, at risk to blind spot, insecure load/straps, tire blowout, debris kick up, etc, etc.

Anyways, your insights from the other team are always appreciated by me still the same.
You were said you were ticketed for 65 over so that’s the charge you are fighting. And apparently not the lesser charge ..... excessive speed in the second tier. That’s a rare point to get to. What you feel you were doing doesn’t matter. It’s what can be proven in court. From your described location, sounds like it was a traffic member as well. I highly doubt he had to “psyche himself up” in order to write a ticket. Its part of the job, easily done and most likely forgotten about by the end of the day.

Too bad you mistook humour for antagonism and self rightousness. Take your WebMD diagnosis into your doctor next time and watch his face. Or your internet based tax laws to your accountant. Call the chef out of the kitchen and tell him how to cook. It always goes poorly. I’ve seen dozens of people mount a variety of defences that have no legal basis in a court. From having to poop, to being late for an appointment, to the vehicle in front driving erratically. I’ve even encouraged them to not use those defences and to ask for an adjournment to better prepare themselves. When they decide they know better, it makes for great entertainment for everyone present.

As for the officer speeding, unless you have some magical device to circumvent space and time how else is he supposed to catch up? I worked a highway patrol section. Routinely we would be hitting 180 km/hr when closing the distance and would do that a dozen times a day. Yet in my 4 yrs, never did any one of those 20 officers get in or cause a collision because of those speeds. Practice, training and the threat of legal action if something goes wrong provides the basis for that.

I won’t speculate as to why the officer pulled along side you. I’ve done it with my camera on the suspect vehicle in order to get video of the driver. As to why he did, who knows. As for your radar detecto, I do know that once some (not all) officers see one, any chance of officer discretion goes out the window.

Your last point of momentarily exceeding the speed limit legally? No, no you cannot exceed the speed limit. I agin encourage you not to use this defence either. I will not speculate as to a bunch of “what if’s” of debris, blind spots or tire blowouts, neither will the court.

I understand the pride in having a clean license. I was upset when mine got a smack a few years ago but I got over it, there are a lot worse things in life. As for fines escalating over the years in BC ...... the fines for traffic infractions in BC are the second lowest, if not the lowest, in the entire country. In NS it would be a $2440 fine, license suspension, six points and good luck getting insurance at any rate. Ontario would be fines up to $10K, 7 day impound, 1 yr license. suspension and 100% insurance increase. Saskatchewan would be over $1100 and whatever else they do insurance wise. Alberta would be $650-$2000 plus points and a license suspension. Here in BC it will be an impound, about $2,000 paid over three years and you keep your license. In a bang for your buck kind of way, BC has the best deal going.
 

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"Your last point of momentarily exceeding the speed limit legally? No, no you cannot exceed the speed limit. I agin encourage you not to use this defence either. I will not speculate as to a bunch of “what if’s” of debris, blind spots or tire blowouts, neither will the court."

Clarify this please. One cannot exceed the speed limit to execute a pass legally?

Good conversation guys. Keep it going.
 
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