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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, I just spoke with BK about doing some carb tune-ups after the dyno day. Basically, I got the impression that Ron hates dyno tuners and didn't believe the squigly line meant anything.

His words were something along the lines of,"I hate dyno tuners...." :D
I expressed a desire to get the low-end bogging and midrange flat spot out of the powerband and he suggested that I should just leave the factory jet kit in there and not to mess with it

He suggested that dyno sheets don't give enough information to tune an engine...
Does anybody else agree with this train of thought? I would like to believe that dyno tuners have it right with their trial and error dyno sheets, and jet kits are in 2nd place.
 
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that sounds pretty strange...i would have to agree with you that the trial& error method with a dyno works because the proof is right there on the printout...admittedly, i am far from a mechanic, so i would be interested in knowing why ron would be against dyno tuning:confused
 

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Hmmm If these so called mechanics hate dyno tuners so much then ask them to explain why???????? Dyno numbers ARE SO INPORTANT to racers??

and then again it could be that the cost to have dyno work is expensive and probably not all that nessary for street use, after all 1/10th of improvement isn't noticable to anyone on the street. JMHO
 
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as someone that does alot of carb work at work i think,that it is important to get all those little hicups sorted out but there are people that are un reasonable and it just takes time and money and most guys will complain its not perfect,we deal with this alot,even with jet kits same thing ,its all the minor adjustments,if it means going back in for more adjust so be it,just get a price before you do this,if we all had dynos it would be great but 20,000 is steep at this point for most shops.this is my view,i'll be glad to talk!
 
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That does seem odd,.. where I work we have a dyno and we tune vehicles on it on a DAILY basis,.. it is an EXCELLENT tool for tuning engines,.. not sure why Ron at BK wouldn't like them.. without it you would have no idea where your engine is at besides the way it "feels" and sounds.. which isn't all that acurate at all...
 

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Tuning is adjusting 2 things :

Fuel curve (how much fuel at what rpm)
and Timing curve (how much timing, base, and advancement, at what rpm)

So dyno charts mean EVERYthing to tuning an engine. Air to fuel using a wideband o2 sensor y9ou can checkt he air to fuel ratio through the entire run and figure out why power is dropping at spots due to the a/f ratio,

also the timing.

Tuning without a dyno is essentially guess work. A good tuner can usually get it close through experience with a specific combo without a dyno but it IS largly guess work and when tuning on the bleeding edge of performance vs. reliability, guess work will not do !
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well so far we have a general consensus that the dyno isn't just some hokey piece of inaccurate equipment.

What baffles me is why Ron was so reluctant to go into the bike and do any further tuning. Granted, you can't easily feel a 5 hp drop for 800rpms on the street but is there some reason that a tuner would not want to fix a dip in the powerband?

Calling specifically on those experienced with tuning carbs, would my example of going 2 clips up on the main needles ruin the rest of the power delivery or something??

I can't see why they would want to leave it the way it is other than to defend their tuning job.

Sewman
 

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May be he's just jealous because BK doesn't have a Dyno. :p Not to be dissing Ron or anything, that guy knows what he's talking about. But I remember getting a similar response from Ben at NS Suzuki when we were talking to him and the guy from that Suzuki shop on Commercial that has a Dyno. Ben was very adement that you don't need a Dyno to tune your bike properly, while the other guy certainly thought differently.
 
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btw, Modern's 1,000 year old dyno seems to always read low. A couple friends have taken bikes there for dyno slips, one read less than reasonably predicted for the bike and amount of work performed and another didn't believe the figure he recieved, took it to another, newer, more modern dyno and got a higher reading.

Maybe they should spray some WD-40 on that thing...or put it out of its misery.
 
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PorscheNut said:
btw, Modern's 1,000 year old dyno seems to always read low. A couple friends have taken bikes there for dyno slips, one read less than reasonably predicted for the bike and amount of work performed and another didn't believe the figure he recieved, took it to another, newer, more modern dyno and got a higher reading.

Maybe they should spray some WD-40 on that thing...or put it out of its misery.
even if it reads low - it's not a problem for tuning as long as it reads consistently so you can see the effects of different tuning combos in relation to one another....the only concern with it reading low is bragging rights (which may be very important to some):)
 

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Sewman, carb tuning is as far as I'm concerned, the only area of working on a bike that requires deep specific knowledge. Any moron can re and re anything, but there are so many variables involved in carb tuning, it is typically not as simple as "2 clips up or down" - ie. even if this helped the midrange, you'd be losing something elsewhere. Nothing is independant on these suckers, so you really need a theoretical understanding of the system; something most mechanics lack. Not saying anything specific to Ron who I've never met, but this could be a factor.
 
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