dispute it.

 

I've seen that speedtrap behind the ferry toll booth right at the entrance to 99 a few times now this summer.

It's tempting to start raging as you're peeling through that corner.

 

Speed contrary to highway sign is the technical definition of speeding, so you don't have any argument over that part. As for writing down how fast you were going, most people don't realize it but there is a second page to all tickets that the officer puts all his/her notes on and keeps. This is where the log of exactly what the officer saw/observed/thinks they saw and where your speed would be noted. If you are going to fight the ticket ask for a copy of this 2nd page - they are legally required to supply it and it's best to know what you are fighting before you get into court. Make sure you check EVERY part of the ticket for the correct information. Even the smallest little mistake or ommission can constitute a "Fatal Flaw" and result in the case being dismissed.

It can never hurt to dispute as long as you have the time to go to court. If they don't show, you win, if they do, at least you delayed having to pay the fine.

 

And if they do show up, the judge can choose to raise the fine for wasting the court's time. If you're going to fight it, be sure you weren't speeding.

Now if you were actually speeding (not that any of us do that, of course), suck it up and pay the fine. It's only $103 if you don't waste the next month debating the merits of speed limits here on BCSB. That's the cheapest speeding fine there is.

I've seen traffic backed up to the "just out of sight" point on that corner, there's a reason the speed limit drops. Roll off the throttle, and wait for the 80km/h sign once you're established on the S2S.

 

they don't have to put your speed down, but if you received a ticket for $138, that means you were doing up to 21km/h over the posted speed limit..

 

Sven the smallest little mistake or ommission can constitute a "Fatal Flaw" and result in the case being dismissed.

It has to be an exceptional error, enough to prove that the officer was a complete
fuck up. Getting a digit or two wrong, or mistaking the time by a half hour or so,
or something minor like that won't matter a bit.

I've been given that ticket before, as a minimum, as in "I'm going to give you a
ticket anyway, but this is a break for you instead of what I could have charged
you with".

You best think how fast you were really going (no, you don't need to post it here),
and figure out if he let you off easy or not before deciding to dispute.

A polite dispute of the amount might get the fine reduced about $50 or so, not likely worth
your time to show up for that. Then again, if you've got nothing better to do,
show up and see if he appears or not. If he shows, don't dispute the allegation,
just dispute the amount, and be real polite. They won't jack the fine up on that basis.

 

Thanks guys. I don't really have the time to dispute, so paying would be easiest. Thanks for all of your assistance.

 

And if they do show up, the judge can choose to raise the fine for wasting the court's time. If you're going to fight it, be sure you weren't speeding.

you guys throw this bullshit around as though it was a well established fact for every ticket dispute, IT'S NOT! not even close. it is a rare occurance indeed when the jp raises a fine and it has nothing to do with you rightfully and legally representing yourself in court, get over it.

talk about lousey internet lawyers :rolleyes

 

138 is the lowest fine isn't it?
i would pay the ticket now. because for speed traps the officer will have everything written down in his log to the T. and will spew it all out in court. so the only chance is that he won't show. but then you gotta miss a day of work. i would honestly just pay the ticket and save the 25 bucks.

 

you guys throw this bullshit around as though it was a well established fact for every ticket dispute, IT'S NOT! not even close. it is a rare occurance indeed when the jp raises a fine and it has nothing to do with you rightfully and legally representing yourself in court, get over it.

I agree it has nothing to do with representing yourself in court. And I agree it's not going to happen every time you lose a ticket dispute. But if you dispute, and you're guilty, and the cop can prove 8 ways from sunday that you were doing something blatantly idiotic (like 2x or 3x the limit), then yes, the JP may raise your fine and give you a nice speech while he's at it. It is a rare occurrence that all of these factors come together in a courtroom, because usually the guilty party is more intelligent than to try and dispute, or he's intelligent enough to only plead down the fine and not dispute the allegation.

When it goes wrong is when the guilty party has some gross misunderstanding of the law and thinks they can get out of it on a technicality (spelled name wrong, or didn't write down speed, or something). I've seen this happen once. The guy stepped up to the charge puffed up like a rooster, proudly claimed "not guilty", and then proceeded to have his *ss handed to him by the cop and the judge once they point out that the technicality isn't grounds for dismissal. I forget the amount the judge added, but it was something like 50% more than the original fine (which was for doing 3x the limit).

talk about lousey internet lawyers

Sounds an awful lot like the pot calling the kettle black... :rolleyes

The value in asking here is to hear what other people's experiences have been. Laws in Canada are fixed, but court decisions are based on precedent. There's no harm in finding out how others were treated, if the situation matches yours and you can take a copy of that person's judgement with you to the courtroom, you can argue for the same outcome. Same crime, same penalty.

 

BC traffic court has very little precedent when it comes to speeding. Some of the basic rules apply, but generally the judge has a free hand.

Binding "Precedent" is limited to those cases that come from higher/appelate courts and are therefore limited to cases that have been decided, and then appealed. That means lawyers must be involved. Since speeding tickets are never appealed, there is no real body of "precedent" relating to them. I can only think of a handful of cases regarding traffic and evidence, and all the recent ones involved licensing issues.

-Sandworm

 

Speed contrary to highway sign is the technical definition of speeding, so you don't have any argument over that part. As for writing down how fast you were going, most people don't realize it but there is a second page to all tickets that the officer puts all his/her notes on and keeps. This is where the log of exactly what the officer saw/observed/thinks they saw and where your speed would be noted. If you are going to fight the ticket ask for a copy of this 2nd page - they are legally required to supply it and it's best to know what you are fighting before you get into court. Make sure you check EVERY part of the ticket for the correct information. Even the smallest little mistake or ommission can constitute a "Fatal Flaw" and result in the case being dismissed.

It can never hurt to dispute as long as you have the time to go to court. If they don't show, you win, if they do, at least you delayed having to pay the fine.

where do you ask for a copy of this "second page" at driver services?

 

******************

 

Going to the Horseshoe Bay ferry regularly I have noted a frequent speed trap set up at the *top* of the hill. This is a recent thing and they are being quite merciless about it.

My advice would be to slow down to below 70 as you approach the 60K zone approaching the ferry terminal.

As for disputing the ticket I would have a good look at the ticket and ask for "page two" as it has been suggested.

Spike will come around in a year or two once his luck has run out.

 

Spike will come around in a year or two once his luck has run out.

Not likely. If I get ticketed for speeding, it'll be because I deserve it, and i'll pay it.

 

where do you ask for a copy of this "second page" at driver services?

Once you receive your notice of dispute from the courts, you need to go to your local court house and fill out the appropriate request forms. I can't remember exactly what they are called but the person at the desk will be able to help you.

Just a side note to everyone talking about asking for a reduced fine. The JP can only reduce the fine to $138.00. That is the minimum fine for speeding.

 

Not likely. If I get ticketed for speeding, it'll be because I deserve it, and i'll pay it.

Thank you, Spike, for being a stand up fellow.
I lose interest in a big hurry if someone is guilty, but endeavors to find ways to avoid the consequences....and "oh boy," what consequences!
$100 or more?
yikes. Big fat deal.
I engage in the motorcycling sport for fun, and I don't count my fun in dollars and cents.
If I'm speeding, and get caught, I write the cheque.
I can tell you with some certainty, I've been guilty of more motor vehicle act infractions than I have tickets for......

 

dispute it!

 

the only thing you can dispute is whether you were speeding.

I once disputed a speeding ticket, I claimed I was not speeding.

They pulled out my driving record, and listed every traffic offence I have ever been charged with, speeding, speeding, speeding, speeding, speeding, speeding, speeding, speeding, failure to keep right, yellow light, yellow light, yellow light, speeding, speeding, speeding, speeding, unnecesary noise, unsafe start, speeding.....

so, it became really difficult to argue that yes I have been caught speeding in the past, but this time really I wasnt speeding.

so I lost, and the ticket went from $108 to $245, because now I've been found guilty in a court of law.

 

Someone told me to make sure and demand to see the gun they clocked you with, because a lot of time they just guage your speed relative to other traffic, or merely eyeballed you. I know peeps that have gotten out of a ticket on the spot that way. Obviously that wouldn't work at a speed trap.

A friend also told me someone she knows(I know, I know that sounds credible ) has gotten out of a handfull of tickets because he demands a rediculous amount of things be brought on the court date: the officer, the radar gun used, the intruction manual for the gun, the training manual, the person that trained the officer, yadda yadda. Dunno if that's bs or not, but it's kind of funny

 

Someone told me to make sure and demand to see the gun they clocked you with, because a lot of time they just guage your speed relative to other traffic, or merely eyeballed you. I know peeps that have gotten out of a ticket on the spot that way. Obviously that wouldn't work at a speed trap.

A friend also told me someone she knows(I know, I know that sounds credible ) has gotten out of a handfull of tickets because he demands a rediculous amount of things be brought on the court date: the officer, the radar gun used, the intruction manual for the gun, the training manual, the person that trained the officer, yadda yadda. Dunno if that's bs or not, but it's kind of funny

Before you get all excited about the above info, this is what's accepted by the JPs in Vancouver Traffic Court.

At minimum, the officer needs to state the following:

-Years as a police officer.
-Date, time and location of the offence.
-Roadway.
-Years of driving experience.
-Observations of hundreds of motor vehicles during these years.
-Been tested to within (5-10km) for speed estimation.
-Qualified to be a radar operator. Note, officer is not a radar technician so aside from saying that the radar is an instrument that can accurately measure the speed of a moving object and that the speed of radar waves travel at 300,000 feet/second, he's not required to explain the inner working of a radar gun.
-States the brand name of the radar unit used. Needs to say how he tested the radar unit. ie. tuning fork prior to usage. The radars used have internal testing that's done when you switch it on and press the test button and that it showed test okay.
-How long he tracked your vehicle visually as well as his estimation of your vehicle's speed.
-Speed of your vehicle checked by the radar unit.
-Speed for that portion of the roadway you're travelling on. ie in the City of Vancouver, it's 50km/hr unless otherwise posted, ie on the bridges.

Demanding to see the radar gun in court or it's serial number or it's operation manuel is not required. It doesn't mean it hasn't been tried. The radar reading on it's own is not enough as evidence. There must be the visual estimation first that's then corroborated by the radar reading.

And as one JP said "everyone speeds". The fact that you're doing 51km/hr in a 50km/hr zone means you're guilty. "And everyone goes over 50km/hr in the city." So for those who get the minimum fine of $138 when you know you should be getting the $196 or $368, it's a break." But of course feel free to fight it because the officer won't take it personal, heck, if it's a day off, that's 8 hours of overtime pay....to buy toys for the motorcycle...err I mean to help pay down the mortgage. So whether he wins or loses the case is irrelevant. He's just there to present what he observed. Either the evidence is sufficient or it isn't. Either way, the JP decides. :thumbup

 

Yep, everyone speeds. Sometimes we get ticketed for it. I once got a ticket for 109 km/h in a 100 zone, the following week I got a ticket for "failing to keep right" because I was doing only 100 km/h in the fast lane. Yep, I got a ticket for doing the maximum allowable speed on the freeway, go figure.

Slower traffic keep right, aparently I am not allowed to do the maximum and obstruct the people who want to break the law :rolleyes

 

Yep, everyone speeds. Sometimes we get ticketed for it. I once got a ticket for 109 km/h in a 100 zone, the following week I got a ticket for "failing to keep right" because I was doing only 100 km/h in the fast lane. Yep, I got a ticket for doing the maximum allowable speed on the freeway, go figure.

Slower traffic keep right, aparently I am not allowed to do the maximum and obstruct the people who want to break the law :rolleyes

You deserve it. If you want to drive the speed limit, stay in the slow lane. The fast lane is for people who want to "pass"...hence they take the chance of speeding.

 

the following week I got a ticket for "failing to keep right" because I was doing only 100 km/h in the fast lane.

Its good to know that some officers enforce "failing to keep right" :thumbup

 

^ not often enough though