The lead bike always has the right of way ...........NEVER cut up the inside to take that right turn if the there is a rider in front of you .

 

Here is fun link for all you Noobs , who want to partake in group riding ...... http://www.njmc.org/etiquette/ , the hand signal on the bottom will be the one you use most often in Vancouver :laughing

 

So the lead biker can take the right turn from any lane position?

The lead biker does not need to necessarily move into p3 to take the right turn.

He can take the turn from p1 and the second rider should be paying attention and slow down to follow correct?

I've attached two roughly hand drawn pics.

1 of where the lead biker moves into p3 then right turns
or just one of p1 to right turn?

 

:laughing


In th best of worlds, FROM A STOP (ie: red light or stop sign) she should have first moved over and 'stopped', prior to taking the turn - but you will find not all do. If you are riding in a group, pay attention. Follow the leader's lead.

 

Lead rider signals the intent to turn and should move over to p3 (position closest to the curb) following rider switches to p1/p2..

 

what JK81 is saying is that the lead rider does what he is required to do regardless of who is behind him.

Having one or more or no riders behind you is irrelevant.

 

Lead bike probably should move over to the right and make the turn , however , over time you will develop your own comfort zone as far as lane position . I prefer staying left and taking the right turn smoother on a gradual arc , some new riders take it from the curb and it can make the corner feel too tight for the inexperienced . If a rider behind me assumed he has right of way and comes up the cub side to make the right , I would likely hit him when I took my turn from the left ......this is why the guy in front has ROW.

 

If both riders are taking the right turn? riding as a pair?

 

either method is good, riding schools will teach you to change lane positions before a right turn in order to give yourself the best turning radius for everyone in the group. if you're comfortable making a right turn from P3 to P3, then lane swapping is not neccessary. most importantly, if you're riding in a group, its best to discuss this aspect of group riding. I hold my lane position in the group i ride with regularly, and i position swap with another group i ride with.

 

what ^ said.

oh wait, i DO ride with your group :laughing

yea, it's about group chemistry, whatever works for the group, but in general the lead rider should be able to turn in any lane position irrelevant of who/want's behind them.

 

As an added bonus a lead rider changing positions adds visualization of intent to turn much better than a signal that needs to be communicated rearward. If the #2 rider doesn't see your signal, delays meeting your speed there could be a surprise. When you signal there will be a delay for that message to reach the group as you're not seen a couple rows back but adding a hand signal helps so long as the #2 rider it watching you. A common warning of lane intent around town seems to be taking a foot off the peg and kicking out into the desired lane position.

The lane position of following riders shouldn't be so important so long as everyone has space as the intent to turn is known.

 

Huh? Wha? Too many conflicting answers here. I'm right:

Leader stays where he is in P1, completes the turn.
Follower stays in P3 and completes turn (if he needs room for a wider arc when completing the right turn, then he would move to P1 as well)

It's more important to manage the"space around you " than it is to worry about lane position. Space = life (or at least a better change of it)

 

....
It's more important to manage the"space around you " than it is to worry about lane position. Space = life (or at least a better change of it)

+1, around hazardous sections don't be too much worried about the lines, lane positions etc. Just use common sense, have sufficient safety margin and be predictable to the other drivers.

 

Fawn - honestly, what reason is there for the leader to change lane positions from P1 prior to turning right?

 

This is the way I was trained to ride group, the way most school trained people ride. So using this method makes riding together easier and more predictable.


They teach you this way because when you are riding alone, you will normally also change position in the exact fashion to stop people/riders/bicycles from slipping into the large space between you and the curb. Now that is just theory.

Doing it in all situations is simply choice - it is something many of us due from force of habit/training - if you ride with similar riders it is nice to all follow the same general 'rules'. But really, not everyone will ride the same. I like to make sure, personally, wherever the 'leader' goes if riding second in line, that I am NOT in the same lane positions - so just move over accordingly. Left or Right, its all good.

 

This whole thing is not a problem if the distance between the bikes is large enough. You're not doing "parade laps". And you're not on a damn cruiser having to ride side by side.

Leave enough space to the bike in front so you can properly react. If you are in front, signal your intention clearly (hand signals are great). Problem solved.

This "he should be in this part of the lane while I'm in that part of the lane" is all BS, especially if you end up riding behind someone you don't know.

 

Do you guys all corner bolt-upright anyways? A bike and rider leaning over to make a 90 degree turn take up the better part of a full lane anyway, who gives a damn about P1, P2 etc.
If I'm leading someone through a corner like that and they try to get me on the inside while I'm trying to turn, I'm going to reach out and kick their shifter into neutral.

 

wow, you're pretty flexible.

 

The only reason to change to the right hand portion of the lane is to prevent people (cars) from coming up beside you while they try to also make a right turn. In group riding, I would not move over, as the #2 rider will block that part of the lane. The most important aspect is to make sure that the lead rider is still allowed to lead. If the #2 guy crowds the line it blocks vision. If they go too soon it will crowd the #1 guy. Best bet is to communicate before hand.

 

The only reason to change to the right hand portion of the lane is to prevent people (cars) from coming up beside you while they try to also make a right turn.

riding schools teach you to change position to the right to prevent cars from trying to pass you on the right while you're waiting to make the turn. this is unnecessary when having another rider behind you on the right...

every group i've ridden with, the leader stays in his position before the turn, and remains in that same position after... i think i'd smack someone with my helmet if they changed lane position right before every turn... but just leave enough room for everyone to turn however they want to. its an ass move to try coming up on the inside of someone who's turning right...

 

Look at it defensively , if you move to the inside lane from P1 you increase the odds of the rider behind you hitting you if he is not paying attention or hits dirt or oil or whatever, you are then relying on him , I try to never count on anyone else doing the right thing, that puts my life in their hands. If I was P1 and was the last rider in a group I would move to P3 so the car behind me would have a better chance to see that I was intending to follow the group.
I just pretend that everyone else is going to screw up and position myself to let them read what I am going to do as clearly as possible. In a group you rely on others to a degree that probably makes group rides the most challenging riding a new rider will do.
Stay clear of erratic riders in a group, its to late to say "I never trusted that rider" after a crash.

 

P1, P2, P3....blah, blah, blah....be aware of others and be aware of others being aware of you. Always give room for yours and someone else's error or misjudgment. Unless, riding like cops side-by -side, strict rules are a must. But relying on "rules" is asking for trouble as your "rules" may be different than anothers "rules", as this discussion reveals.... Being "right" may not feel so good when one causes another to go down....

 

As long as you leave lots of space, and you communicate it shouldn't matter what position you're in. When you're riding in a group (2 or more) it means someone is blocking P3 for you already. If your group leader is anal about it, just talk about it before you go so you know what everyone is up to. If you're in a staggered formation with lots of space, it should be a breeze.

You should always chat with the group beforehand. That way if you get separated, or something, everyone knows what to do.

 

To lane switch or not to lane switch it just depends on the leader and prior group discussion. If there is no discussion then watch what they do on the first turn.

http://www.njmc.org/etiquette/

The last one made me LOL